Parliament Appointment Committee Vetting of Minister for the Interior, Alhaji Muntaka Mohammed Mubarak, MP, Asawase (1)

Chairman, Bernard Ahiafor, MP, Akatsi South: The clerk of the committee may proceed to administer the oath.

Muntaka takes the oath: I Muntaka Mohammed Mubarak, solemnly affirm that the evidence I shall give before this committee touching the matter in issue shall be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so do I affirm.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Honourable nominee, may you in three minutes tell us about yourself.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you colleagues, members of parliament. Thank you everyone here and those watching us from home and abroad. Mr. Chairman, like I said, I’m Muntaka Mohammed Mubarak, born and bred in Aboabo, a suburb in Kumasi.

I started school at Aboabo L.A., moved to Calavera International School, then completed at Central International School with middle living students as educators and then common entrance. Proceeded to Tamale Secondary School for my O-Level and then to Tamale Secondary School for my C-Form. Did my first degree at KNUST, Faculty of Agriculture, and also did my second degree, the same KNUST, at their planning department.

By way of education, since I did my master’s and completed in 2004 and became later a member of parliament, I’ve had several executive education, some in Berkeley in California for global health. I’ve had about four different executive education at Kennedy School, notably national and international security, mastering negotiation, senior managers in government, and others. I’ve done a lot of other certificates executive programmes at RIPA.

By way of employment, I’ve been a self-employed person right from primary school, and I’ve always worked through secondary school to be able to fend for myself and support my other siblings, same through the university and almost all my colleagues. When I’m doing the undergraduate, I was teaching all around and doing all manner of jobs just to keep the body and soul together.

After graduating or after the A-Level, my first national service was at Abodomin the Bekwai District, and then my second national service was with USAID.I’ve worked with JICA briefly. I started to be a self-employed individual until sometime around 1999 when I got employment with AdwumaPa Buyers Limited, a licensing cocoa buying firm, where I rose through the ranks to be the head of research, monitoring, and evaluation.

Then I joined Parliament in 2005, and I’ve remained a member of Parliament to date.I’ve had opportunities to do many other things as a member of Parliament, including being the Minister for Youth and Sports in 2009, which was very brief. I’ve been the Ranking on Health Committee. I’ve chaired the Health Committee.I’ve been a member of this very honourable committee for two decades as a member of the Appointments Committee.

I’ve been a member of the Business Committee, Mines and Energy Committee, and many others. I’ve got the privilege to be one of the five representatives from Ghana to represent Ghana in the Pan-African Parliament, where I’ve also served for over a decade.And there, too, I rose to become the chair of the Committee on Monetary and Finance at the Pan-African Parliament. I’ve been the Government Whip in 2013 to 2016, and also been the Minority Whip between 2017 to February 2023. So, Mr. Chairman, in short, I will say this is how far the Lord has brought me.

Chairman: Thank you very much. We’ll commence the vetting. And I have the pleasure to give the floor to Honourable Amankwa-Manu.

Kofi Amankwa-Manu, MP, AtwimaKwanwoma: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, let me take this opportunity to congratulate my brother and friend, Muse, as I affectionately call him. Congratulations.

Muntaka: Thank you very much.

Amankwa-Manu: I have a few questions for you. Honourable Nominee, on the 14th of January 2025, there was a letter from the Office of the Chief of Staff, which letter sought to demand for certain information regarding certain persons on government payroll.You are going to be a minister with many agencies under you, with such agencies inviting or have invited applications from Ghanaian young men and women for training.

Between December 7th to January 6th, 2025, that is December 2024 and January 6th, January 2025, we had a government in place. With you as Minister of Interior, with all the agencies under you, and looking at the applications, probably some of them already undergoing training, are you going to discontinue or invite those who are already undergoing training?

As we experience, you know, sometime in the history of this country.What would you do to these young men, women who are Ghanaians, who are going through training to serve this nation?

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I’m not privy to the full details of what my colleague is saying, so it makes it very difficult to give very specific answers. But what I will say generally is that I believe that government is continuous and until January 7th, there was a government.

And in my view, every action and inaction of that government is legitimate, except to say that if a new government comes, nothing also debars a government from reviewing whatever actions a previous government has taken, and then puts the best interest of the country forward. So, because I don’t have the details and the fine details of what you are talking, it may be very difficult for me to give very specific answers.

But what I know is that if a government takes an action which is legitimate, obviously another government has every right to be able to review it. But I keep saying, let us always do this in the best interest of our country, because if there is in the best interest of the country, you act, you’ll be acting right. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Amanwka-Manu: Thank you very much, Mr. Nominee.And thank you for giving me the assurance. Yeah, there’s a follow-up. Yes, yes. The assurance that government indeed is continuous. And I believe strongly that whatever review will be done, will be done in the best interest of our nation.

Looking at what we have, Mr. Chairman, in terms of fairness and in recruitment, would you say that quotas being given on a regional basis to ensure fairness and balance is a good thing? As a minister designated for the Ministry of Interior, would you promote a quota system on a regional basis to ensure fairness and balance?

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, what I will say with this is that, you know, I’m going to a ministry that has a lot of professionals that are experts in their field. I mean, you can’t doubt the expertise of the Inspector General of Police. Neither will you doubt the Director General of Ghana Prisons and the like. And I’m going to be a team member that will be working with them.

Together with them, we’ll have to review over the last maybe 30, 40 years, or since we started this Fourth Republican Constitution, how have we done it? Has this served a purpose? If there are lapses, we’ll look at it and review them in the best interest of the country. But to sit here and assure you that, oh, we’ll do it based on regional, then maybe we’ll go and then people will say, can we even look at tribal?

Can we look at religion? Can we look at all the other balances? It may be very difficult for me to give you a specific answer, but to tell you that definitely recruitment into the security services is a serious concern for the average Ghanaian, and it requires a review of the process. How do we do it? How do we do it so that it will meet the best standard?

Because remember, in ensuring all these balances, which I perfectly agree with you, because myself, I’m a minority, and I know that if you leave it to the whims and caprices, only the majority will have it, and they will deny the fewer minorities. But remember, in the security services, you are talking about lives and protection of all of us, because the simple mandate of the security agencies is to preserve, to prevent crime, ensure law and order, and protect the average citizen in his or her going about doing their dutiful duties.

So, I can assure you that with this crop of expertise that we have in the ministry, we’ll sit down and look at how best to approach this recruitment process, so that at least, even if we are not able to perfect it, to make it better than it is now.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. I recognise a minority whip on a follow-up question.

Frank Annoh-Dompreh, MP, Nsawam-Adoagyiri: Okay, Chair, I’m grateful. HonourableMuntaka, congratulations. The subject matter raised by our dear colleague, as you do know, is a very popular concern. There is a lot of murmuring and whispering on the same subject matter. Your answers portend as a patriotic citizen, and I have no doubt.

However, His Excellency the President, then candidate, made a lot of promises on review. He spoke to the Free SHS, and he said, possibly it was going to be reviewed. Your colleague, Honourable Ato Forson sat in the same seat you are sitting, and he spoke about review.Can you look into the camera and tell Ghanaians that the context of your review is not cancellation? Can you assure us that your review is not cancellation?Mr. Speaker, I am asking. Mr. Chair, probably I should rephrase my question.

My question to you, my good friend, is can you elucidate on your review? This review has been used by many of your colleagues.The review of the Ghanaians who have been recruited into the security services. Does your review mean cancellation? Can you assure us that the review doesn’t mean cancellation? This is a simple question. Why are you worrying, HonourableMuntaka? He is an experienced man.He can answer the question. Allow him to answer.

Chairman: Thank you very much.May we proceed to answer the question with respect to review of those undergoing training?

Muntaka: Mr. Chairman, my Honourable colleague’s question is legitimate. But, if we go and we are reviewing and we realise that someone didn’t even go to school and he has been put in there, will you recommend that that person should be allowed to continue? If we go and we realise that somebody is physically challenged and he has been put into training for military or for immigration or something that requires somebody who should be very active.

So that’s why I’m saying that to give you a very definite answer would not even be fair to yourself because then I’ll be doing simply, oh, let me just pass this and then go and do another thing.But I just swore an oath. And believe me, everything that I said in the oath, I meant it. And I’m not going to deceive anybody by sitting here telling you one thing that will sound sweet in your ear and go out there and do another thing.

What I’m saying is that I can assure you I will be acting on behalf of His Excellency, the President, His Excellency, John Dramani Mahama, and he’s a very fair-minded person. If you check our manifesto, specifically on paragraph 182, he said that we need to do everything humanly possible to put away excessive partisanship in the recruitment process.

So, all these things are things that we’ll look at with the expert that have been in the police service, whether prison service, the national fire service, and all the agencies. Some of them have been there for three decades. They’ve learned so much. They’ve seen it come and go. And if we sit and dispassionately decide that, look, what can we do in the best interest of our country, I’m sure we’ll be able to come up with something that will meet the expectation of the majority of us.

Instead of maybe while watching or sitting here, when I don’t have all the details, to promise you something, then I’ll only go to the ministry and realise that what I promised honourable members of parliament is not something that can be achieved. Or maybe I could even do far more.

So, I’ll be grateful that, I mean, you know me. We’ve worked together. We’ve done a lot of things together with all humility, Mr. Chair. When I say we’ll do it in the best interest of this country, I meant we’ll do it in the best interest of this country. Thank you.

Chairman: Thank you.Any further questions Honourable Amankwa?

Amankwa-Manu: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Honourable nominee, I’ve just been told that I have one last question. And it borders on promotion.There have been complaints from a lot of officers, i.e. police, and the rest, of officers not being promoted on time. Some believe that such delay in promotion is due to the fact that officers are not transferred also on time.

People are left to stay at one unit, one place for a very long time, not creating the room for others to also go through the mill. As the minister-designate for the Ministry of Interior, what would you do differently to ensure that officers are promoted on time? And if there is the need for an officer to be transferred, that officer is transferred ahead so that we can have that vibrancy in the system. Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I can assure my colleague that these are some of the comments I’ve also heard about this same promotion. And it’s worth looking into those concerns. I mean, like I said, this agency heads are experts in their own field, and we definitely have to look at. One of the things yesterday when I was taking a briefing from some of the executive heads was that, for example, when the regulation says you should stay in a place at least four years, people assume as if it is at most four years.

So, when the thing says at least four years, it means that it can go beyond four years. But others assume that when the regulation says at least four years, the moment it is four years, you must mechanically be moved to the next level. And yesterday when I was looking at some of the agencies, their own organogram, and the kind of vacancies that they have, you could see that, yes, there are some places where people need to fill.

But one of the things that I also heard, which I will look into, into realities, is that almost everyone, especially the Ghana police, almost everyone that needed to be promoted had been promoted. I will look into it, because where I sit now, I’m a designate, and I don’t have all the full facts, but it is a lot of concern that I’ve also heard, and I think it is worth looking into.

One thing I can assure you, my colleague, is that I believe that we need to codify the processes, document them. I mean, I work largely in the private sector. You know that annually you’ll be reviewed, you’ll be assessed, and the assessment will be shown to you, yourself. You agree with some, you have the opportunity to question some, and at the end of the day, it will be found.

So, the way sometimes our security services, I don’t know how they do it, but like I said, because they are expert, we can learn from other jurisdictions how they do it. The way it is mechanical, some go to sleep, others are breaking their back to help the system, and then everybody just wake up, oh, it is time for promotion, then we all get promoted. I don’t think that itself encourages people to give in their best.

So, we’ll look at how to do it in a way that it doesn’t demotivate the men and women, but also make sure that it is based on merit and not just giveaway, because they say at least four years. Yes, because if it is on merit, someone could do two years and get promotion because of some specific thing, but you need to document those process so everybody knows that we all know, if I’m able to do four times in Parliament, this is how it can happen.

If I’m able to do A, B, C, D, this is the benefit that I can get. I’m sure when we are able to put all those things on paper, and it is known, and people are educated very well on it, when those promotions are happening, I’m sure people will be largely satisfied. Thank you, Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. A follow-up on the last question? On the promotion of the officers?

Amankwa-Manu: Yes. Very brief, yes, sir. I would like to avert the mind of the nominee to the police service policy, a policy to the effect that officers – I stand for correction, though, because I can see a lot of police officers here.Officers do not stay or remain at one post or unit for more than five years.

I believe that the honourable nominee, when he assumes office, I believe he would. He said he’s not a master, but I believe that he’s a master in his own right.I believe that when he assumes office, he must have this policy to ensure that officers, if it is time for them to be transferred, they move so that others can also grow. Mr. Chairman, with this, I would once again like to congratulate my friend for his nomination. I have confidence and trust that he will do that which is right for this country.He is a man. What you see is what you get. Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much. Well, Chair, what I will simply say is that, for example, because he mentioned the police, there are three groups within the police service. As you may know from Article 200 all the way to 205, where it talks about the Ghana Police Service, it is the President that has the sole prerogative to promote individuals from ACP upwards.

That’s Assistant Commissioner of Police upwards. Then you have from, I think, what do you call it, Superintendent up to the ACP, too, can be done only by the police counsel. Then you have from the recruits all the way to Chief Inspector. That one is done by the police administration.

So, because of these three tiers, some largely are not in the hands of the senior men. But, like you rightly said, these are things that are worth looking into. And I can assure you, my honourable colleague, I will ensure that fairness and equity is done. Thank you very much, Chair.

Chairman: Thank you so much. I will proceed to give the floor to Honourable Dominic Nitiwul.

Dominic Nitiwul, MP, Bimbilla: Welcome back to Parliament. Yes, but welcome back to Parliament. I’m not in a Naaba.The chiefs will charge me. My honourable friend, HonourableMuntaka, the nominee, I’ve known you in Parliament over the last 16 years. I worked with you in the opposition for eight years.I also worked with you in government for eight years.

Hopefully, once God gives us life, we’ll work together for another four years. You in government, me in opposition.Then after that, we’ll exchange roles again. But let me congratulate you, sincerely. And I’m very happy for you.There are reasons why I’m happy for you. You know them. So, I’ll congratulate you sincerely.I’m going to ask you public interest questions.

Just simple, simple public interest questions. Honourable, my first question is about professionalism of the ten agencies under your ministry.All of them. I want to find out from you. And to say that whilst asking this question, particularly the Ghana police, in ranking them over the period, I would say in West Africa, over the last four… improvements, we don’t just want them to be the best in West Africa or Africa, but the world.

So… because of those same concerns. How are you going to ensure that motorists are not stopped on the way and harassed by agencies under your jurisdiction or your ministry? Either on the roads, in their houses, or any other place. Also, the few ones who stop people and pick something from them, money in particular, how do you intend to ensure that we eradicate that forever? It should not be part of it.

That’s the professionalism I’m talking about.Added to that, it’s still part of professionalism, so it’s one question. Added to that, how do you intend to ensure that agencies that work under your ministry, when it comes to land issues, only act lawfully, but not because somebody has the might or somebody has the stature in society. These two things, they are all around professionalism.And there are public interest things.

People suffer a lot in this country because of these two things. Motorists, people get beaten on the roadside.I have serious examples that maybe later I will discuss with you. But I want you to tell the public how you address these issues, so that by the time you leave office, these issues are not there any longer. Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I mean, my horrible colleague has been a defence minister for eight years, so he really knows what he’s talking about. Yes, I agree with you. You and I have been in the Pan-African Parliament, so we travel across the continent. And sometimes when you get to some other countries and you look at their police, you then begin to appreciate what you have, despite the challenges that continue to confront us.

I agree with you. Fortunately, in the transition document, it shows that we’ve started using body cameras at the police. Eight hundred is in their hands, and about 30,800 is being procured. And according to the fact that I saw, it says that the procurement process is complete.One of the things that I would do to the police council, remember, I’ll just be a member of the police council, where truly with these experts, we’ll push and fashion how to safeguard all of us.

We’ll ensure that if you are a police officer, that you have to step out. Then you have to have your body camera on. So that it takes away all the ambiguity and the troubles. Because when you put the body camera on, everywhere you are, you are being recorded. Not only you, you and your environs. So that if you are on the road extorting money, it will show.

If you are brutalising others, it will show. Whatever other thing that you are doing, the body camera will record and show what you are doing. So, I believe that the hierarchy of almost all the agencies are also concerned when they hear some of these complaints. And they’ve been making frantic efforts to make sure that it goes down to the barest minimum.

And we must also admit, in what you call some time now, you don’t see much of this harassment on the road. But you still see packets of it. We must do everything to make sure that they remain professional. And the only way to take this ambiguity, in my view, Honourable Chair, is to have the body camera on.And then insist and make sure that everybody adheres to it. Secondly, with regards to the land issue, you, all of us have been victim.

I’ve had an incident of where you legitimately acquire a land and then you are called that, ah, some guys have come on and then you call the police.The police that you call are on their way to the place. You get there and another person I’ve called, there’s police, also called police, and the both are coming from the same station, and I was wondering how did this happen, that I will call from one station, police move, the same station, another person calls, they move, and they came and met there, two of them, two vehicles, and they were all from the same station.

I said, okay, then let us all go to the station.And yet, me, who have legitimately acquired mine, I’m holding my document. The other person who called the others, he is not there, but he was able to call the police to come. And then you go to the police, now they realise it is you.Who is the other person who called you? Oh, no, no, that one, you see, I cannot divulge that to you. I said, what is that?

And then, so what you are saying is a legitimate thing, and you’ve seen people lose their legitimate land. And, I mean, with this land, I believe that, Mr. Chair, I know when the Minister for Lands, the nominee for Lands comes here, we may have to fast-track the proper documentation of all the lands in the country, because they are digitalised.

I can tell you, and I’m sure Chair is aware of this, where someone in trying to beat the system, went and backdated the document, and said that he bought the very land that I said I bought in 1995, but he paid the monies in Ghana cedis. When in 1995, we didn’t have Ghana cedis, and that’s how the person got caught, because he said he paid it in Ghana cities.

And in 1999, there was no Ghana cedis.So, you see these things are really happening, but like you rightly said, with professionalism, these are experts. I would demand that the professionalism, that the standard that they’ve set for themselves, they should hold themselves to it.

And I can assure you, Honourable Colleague, that I know it’s not going to be easy, because that will require a change of attitude, change of behaviour, and mindset but will dare and make effort to get them to be professional.And I’m sure once they are professional, most of these things, even if they don’t fizzle away, you will have very minimum of it. Thank you very much, Chair.

Domnic Nitiwul: Yes, just one little question on the professionalism. Will you consider setting up, I know the police already have it, immigration, all the agencies have it, but will you consider setting up a complaints unit under your ministry itself and uplifted to the status of a director, where citizens can go and complain direct, without being intimidated, or they have that feeling that they will be intimidated.

If there’s not one, will you consider doing that? Muntaka: Mr. Chairman, I mean, this is a very legitimate thing.I have had that serious concern. You know, currently, what the police, what they do is that they, when something happens, then the police themselves will say they have the police professional, what do you call it, they have the PIPS, where they will be investigating the issue. I believe that we need to have an independent body that composes with other persons, not necessarily police alone, investigating these complaints.

The Standard Bureau, the Independent Police Standard Bureau, that we’ve seen in other jurisdictions, we need to be able to do that, and together with the hierarchy of the police administration, we will take steps to do that. And, Mr. Chair, my colleague was right. I remember when the seven young men in my constituency were shot and killed, and then, I remember that then Minister of Interior came to Parliament and said, we are going to investigate.

I said, I’ve had many of that, that have been investigated by the police, and I never heard anything. I insisted, and then that push for an independent committee to be set, which was chaired by a high court judge, and the results were different, because it came out that there were no armed robbers, they were just killed, and we had to even pay compensation.

So, there are examples of when we insist that the police alone should not investigate, actions have been taken.I must also admit, there have been instances where the police themselves also investigated alone, and I’ve been able to find culprits and punish them. But I believe that if we are able to have an independent Police Standard Bureau, or it’s like, like we’ve seen in other jurisdictions, it will put the trust of the ordinary citizen more to be able to call and make the complaint, than just to leave it with the police.

And not only the police, it’s the same with the prisons, the same with the National Fire Service, the same with immigration and other agencies that are under the Ministry of Interior.So, I can assure my colleague that we’ll do that. But whether to do it in the ministry is something that I will look at its possibility.

Maybe a director to ensure that those agencies have, because remember, these are professional bodies that are well-trained and they are experts.All we need to do as a team is to ensure that they are acting right, and they are doing what is right. Once we get them to do that, maybe I can designate a director who will be supervising to ensure that all of them set this thing.

But I doubt whether it will be useful to have it at the ministry, where if something happens in the prison, you call the ministry.If something happens at the fire service, you call the ministry. At NADMO, you call the ministry. At all the others, you call the ministry.I think it may be too difficult, but we can get these institutions to do that and make sure that those committees or bureaus that they may set will be working and working effectively. Thank you very much.

Dominic Nitiwul: So, the second question on the second question is also a public interest question. Ghana has been consistently ranked by many organisations to be the second most peaceful country in West Africa over the last five years. It tells you that agencies under your watch and others who work with them are doing a very, very good job.

The public will want to know from you, or I want to know from you, what steps, specific steps, are you going to take that will ensure that Ghana does not regress backwards to those olden days when people are free to sleep in their houses, people are scared because maybe armed robbers are coming to attack them, or highway robberies will be on the increase.

And secondly, how will you ensure that the country, Ghana, is still the destination for many, many people because it’s peaceful? Because that’s what we sell. We don’t have the population like other countries, but we sell ourselves because we are very peaceful people and our country has been peaceful.People go out and cry in the night. They are okay. I want to find out how you, because your ministry, you have agencies that have the direct responsibility for law enforcement.

If they work, we are okay. If they don’t work, we are in trouble. So, I want to know the specific steps you are going to take with your agencies to ensure that they get it, including steps to ensure that morale within your services is high, including steps to ensure that morale within the services is high, because if morale is high, they’ll give you the best.So, link the two. Thank you very much.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.I will start with the second one, which is easier to talk about. I mean, I’m happy that we all know that morale, once their morale is high, I mean, they’ll give you the best and obviously, having known the finance minister and we worked for all these years, I will do everything humanly possible to let him appreciate this, that he will be able to rake in more money.

If the agencies under the ministry that I’m going to be a team are working very effectively and the country is so peaceful, people are willing to come in and invest, he’ll be able to rake in more money.So, he must ensure that we’re able to support them with their emolument, allowances, and what have you. But I know morale is not only about money.

It’s also about fairness and just.If you have a system where everybody believes that I’ll be treated right, even when I go wrong, when I’m going to be punished, it will be measured. It will be based on the level of my mistake or my crime. It will raise the morale of people.So, I’ll be looking at that and I’ll put a lot of premium in trying to get the team that I’ll be working with to ensure that the morale is high. But when it comes to the specific things, Honourable Colleague, you are the Defence Minister.

I keep saying this.And you know we have the National Security Strategic Plan. And in that plan, ours is to have, when I say ours, I’m talking about where, by the grace of God, if this committee approves of me, with my team, ours is to ensure our internal safety. And you know that we need to have the national policing strategy by the Ghana Police Service.

We need to be able to have the land borders strategy for the Ghana Immigration Service. We need to have the narcotic control framework for the Narcotic Control Board. We need to have the small arms and live weapons strategy for managing small arms and guns.We need to be able to have a national strategy for, what do you call it, the prisons.

The National Fire Service fire preventive strategy. These are the specific things that I will task my team that everyone who is heading his area should ensure that that strategy is in place and that strategy is being followed.If we can have that strategy, which is there, and I know you have been at the Defence Ministry, and you’ve done a lot of work already, and the document is there.

I, as a member of the team, will just be coordinating to ensure that all the team members are doing their work right. And we’ll have a timetable that shows, at every point in time, where we should be with our strategy, and what they are doing specifically within that strategy, and periodically review and monitor progress.

Once we’re able to do this, Chairman, I can assure you, we’ll remain safe. People will be willing to come and invest in our country. There will be better opportunities to be able to meet the vision and aspiration of His Excellency John Dramani Mahama as he sends me there to represent him.

So, this will be the specific things that we’ll do to make sure that every one of them, not more, will have, as the National Disaster Management Organisation, their strategy on prevention. How do we, when disasters happen, when emergencies come, what do we do? All those things, we’ll make sure that it’s in place, and be monitoring to make sure that they are following through. Once we do this, Mr. Chair, I’m sure we’ll be safer, and our country will remain safe.Thank you.

Dominc Nitiwul: Mr. Chairman, so I’ll ask my last question.The security, the reason why I ask about this is also because of the happenings of late, where young men invade places and stop people. That’s why I ask this question as well. So, take, put that at the back of your mind.Mr. Nominee, the last question I want to find out from you has to do with the recruitment. There are many people out there who think, wrongly do, that, oh, you don’t need certificate to enter in this, or the security service.

You can just go, just work for a political party, and you go, you can be recruited.I’ll recruit our boys, do this. I want to ask you a specific question. Will you recruit unqualified people into the Ghana Police Service, into the GhanaImmigration Service, into the fire service, and other security services?

Muntaka: Unqualified persons, no, no, no.

Dominic Nitiwul: Thank you very much.

Chairman: Honourable members, I will give the floor to Honourable Mahama Shaibu. You have the floor.

Mahama Shaibu, MP, Daboya-Mankarigu: Mr. Chairman, I’m most grateful. Leader, HonourableNomni, congratulations. A very well-deserved appointment. One of the critical agencies under your ministry, in the criminal justice delivery, is the prison service. They have a huge responsibility of safekeeping, reforming, and transforming prisoners.

In recent times, we’ve had very negative news about these three key responsibilities. What measures, what plans do you have to reform the prison service generally, to meet the very basic responsibilities they are charged with? Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair.Mr. Chair, as a country, and as part of our national security strategy, we have the prison reform strategy for the Ghana Prison Service, and I must admit, even from the briefing, the few briefings, when I was preparing for this, today’s hearing, that I’ve seen, honestly, they’ve been left to be deep orphans. Sometimes, all of us tend to forget about them, and that could be the weakest link in our strategy to keep this country safe.

I can assure you that I am going to pay a lot of attention to the Ghana Prison Service as part of the team member.One of the things, if you look at the manifesto of the NDCs, His Excellency John Dramani Mahama’s vision was to even change the name from prisons to corrections, so that even the mindsets may begin to change.

But I can tell you that there are so many examples that we can see around, in the UK, in Singapore, even in our own neighbouring East Africa, Kenya, where they are using private partnership. They are using PPP, public-private partnership, to deal with most of the issues in the prisons.I’m reliably informed that when you go to Kenya, every number plate that you see on the car is coming from the inmates, because they give opportunity for industry to build these factories within the prison.

It serves multiple purposes. Training of inmates, it gives them skills, it gives them income, and obviously, because they are prisoners, the income or the payment that are made are not as if the factory was set up outside.This is an area that we need to look at, because there’s one prison, for example, that has vast land. You go to Ankaful, there’s vast land. If we are able to do that, with government support and the rest of us in the multistakeholder nature of what we are doing, it is going to help them, because currently, even feeding, sometimes, when I heard yesterday, I was shocked that we can treat each other that badly.

Today, the rationing for a prisoner in Ghana is GH¢1.80p. For the whole day, GH¢1.80p. And I doubt, with the greatest respect to these members of the committee and those listening to us, even the cats and dogs in our houses, how much food do we give them? That we put our own compatriots, because of one mistake or the other, in trying to correct them, we feed them with GH¢1.80p, and expect that they will not have communicable diseases, they will not have skin diseases, they will look healthy, they will come out reformed.

No, no, no. We are rather putting them in an area where we are expecting them to come out more criminal than they went in. And that is why I was giving Mr. Chairman, this committee, the assurance that I will pay attention.And let me also take the opportunity, Mr. Chairman, to thank the Pentecost Church for the wonderful thing that they’ve done in supporting the Ghana Prison Service. They are helping them to build almost four or five prison camps to enable them to embark on agriculture, what we call farming and other activities.

Had it not been the prison agriculture project, I doubt even if we would not have the huge crisis in our hands, because the prisoners would wake up and there would be no food.And I can imagine how many prison officers we have that can prevent them from crashing the gate. So, I think it’s a very serious thing, and I assure my colleague I’ll pay attention to it. The other thing is that, you remember, His Excellency John Dramani Mahama, the last time we had the opportunity, between 2013 and 16 or 17.

This remand prison project that he embarked on in Nsawam, to separate remand prisoners from the main prisons, unfortunately, that project is still not completed. It is something that I will pay attention to, so that through that we can separate, not only in Nsawam, but in other prisons, separate remand prisoners from the other prisoners. So, it makes it easier.

If every day you wake up and you see them as remand, they are under remand. They are not normal prisoners. You cannot forget about them, because then you know that you have a number of people in the remand prison.The other thing that I think we can do to really help the Ghana prison service is that we have the high court at Nsawam, where the court is so close to the prison.

It takes away the burdensome of trying to move them from one point to another. Already, we are not allocating so much money to them.The little they have; they have to sometimes beg the Ghana police for vehicle to collect inmates to court. And because of those challenges, remand prisoners get locked up and got forgotten. So, the high court just by the Nsawam prison is so helpful.

We’ll see how, together with my colleague from the Attorney General, how we can work together with the Chief Justice to see how we can replicate this in some of the other prisons like Ankaful and others that have larger inmates. And the last one is about the Justice for All. You know, the Justice for All project was one that was so helpful, where judges move into the prisons and deal with especially remand cases and get expedited.

I think that is another thing that, together with my colleague, the Attorney General and the Chief Justice, will look at how we can use that Justice for All to decongest our prison. I’m sure when we take these strategies, partnership with the PPP, ensuring that we feed them well, help them to get skills, and what have you, I’m sure it will lessen the burden that we are putting on the men and women who are keeping them and also our compatriots in a very dehumanising manner that they find themselves. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you. Any further questions? Before you come in, I will plead with the Honourable Nominee. Just be brief in your answers.

Mahama Shaibu: Mr. Chair, the Honourable Nominee has information overload. Thank you, Chairman.All said and done, except and unless you are incarcerated life in prison, you will eventually come out. Reintegration has been a big challenge for most prisoners who are out of prison. Because of societal norms, they find it difficult to even live within the same community they were picked up.What plans would you have to promote a process of rehab, reintegrating prisoners into society when they are out of prison? Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. We will work multisectoral, especially with the national media, what do you call it, there’s the National Media Commission, the NCC, National Commission for Civic Education, because sometimes what we are saying, you never know how real it is until it’s getting to someone closer to you.I remember when we were young, one of our relatives was sent to the Kumasi prisons. I think he did about three years or four years. When he finished his sentence, my late father went and brought him home.

It’s like as if our father has brought some kind of demon in the house. It’s that everybody keeps looking at him in a way, before we realise he left. And unfortunately, some months later, he was killed by the, what do you call it, by the rail line, in the Dagomba line, and we had to go and pick his body.But when he came back, if he had been welcomed as a member of the family, I don’t think he would have sneaked out to go and continue his odd ways.

But the other thing also is that, you know, we have young people also in the prison. Some of them write their BECE there, some write their WASSCE.I’ll be talking to my colleague and leader, Honourable Haruna Iddrisu, the Minister for Education, the possibility of setting up the TVET institution within the prison.

Because you see, when you come out and you have a skill, even if those whom are not really welcoming, but you can find a job and every day get up and go, it minimises the trauma that you are going through. I think together with this and the team that I’m working with, who are experts in this area, I’m sure if we get to implement some of the things that I’m talking about, we’ll see huge improvement in the kind of stigma that goes with just being a prisoner.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Your very last question.

Mahama Shaibu: Very much so, Mr. Chairman. Leader, I know you already mentioned feeding. 1.8 Ghana cedis, woefully inadequate.Indeed, you cannot even buy an egg. That is really serious. Now, tied to that one is overcrowding, and you also touched on it a little bit.But tell us, apart from the churches that you have applauded for coming in to help as part of their corporate social responsibility, what plans would you have in tackling these two issues? And on that note, let me wish you Allah’s blessings.

Muntaka: Thank you very much. Mr. Chair, I take this opportunity to call on otherorganisations, Muslim organisations, other Christian organisations, other non-governmental organisations, to see the inmates as human beings just like you and I. Because one thing that is real is that if we continue to rely on GOG, we’ll only be talking about the problem.We will never be able to deal with it because of how tight the kitty is.

But if we all see that, yes, these are our own brethren, but for one reason or the other, they find themselves there, and we are willing to assist, I’m sure this will improve. But secondly, we need to also be exploring public-private partnership.I know that most prisons in America are private. People build a prison, and the government rents as a way of decongesting, having in mind all the security concerns, making sure that it is good to keep and safe, and do not tamper with the national security strategy.

They build it to meet the standard, and then government rents.That is a possibility. Some of the agencies I’ve seen in the briefing are sitting on very good prime land, and they are now using it in exchange for some facilities. This is also an area that we can also explore, because then we would then be able to get these things built either through our own benevolence or through this public-private partnership and decongest.

And then also, you know, the prisons are in categories. We have maximum, medium, and whatever. We need to be able to do the separations very well, or for lack of better word, for the suffocation, where you classify them properly, because you may go to a place like maybe Ejura and it’s not congested, but you come to Nsawam, it’s sopacked, or Kumasi.

Meanwhile, the kind of prisoners that you can keep in Ejura, some are in Kumasi prison, and you are keeping them in Kumasi prison, where the place is congested. When Ejura is not congested, we need to look at that, and together with the team that I’m going to be working with, we’ll be looking at how to get all these things so that we decongest our prison. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. I will now give the floor to Rita Naa Odoley Sowah.

Rita Naa Odoley Sowah, MP, La Dadekotopon: Thank you, Honourable Chair.I wish to congratulate my leader for his nomination by His Excellency John Dramani Mahama to the Ministry of Interior. Congratulations, Leader. Leader, as we are still on the prison service, they are my constituency, and there is one issue that I have seen ongoing there. We’re talking about inmates, but I want to talk about the prison officers.

Their barracks is being pulled down.Officers have been made to go and rent outside. What plans do you have? In the name of public-private partnership, what plans do you have? Is it that after the construction, the officers are going to be brought back to the barracks, or they are going to still remain in town? Because sometimes they have to work late in the night, and I believe being in the barracks will be a good thing for them. So, what plans do you have to ensure that we have a barracks for the prison officers?

Muntaka: Well, thank you very much.What we are talking about hasn’t come to my notice, but definitely it’s something that I have to go and look at. What I know with the public-private partnership is that before they even pull down that building, they will have built a standard facility where the officers will move in before they will even come to demolish this one.

So, if you have a situation where that has not been done yet they are pulling down that may be wrong. But I will not be able to say tentatively that what you are saying whether accurate or not. But it is worth looking into and I can assure you that I will definitely look into that chair. Thank you.

Rita Sowah: Thank you, Chairman. My second one is, what measures will you implement to ensure fire service responds promptly to and effectively to fire emergencies? My reason for asking this one, recently in Saboba Senior High School, there was a fire outbreak in the girls’ dormitory.

I watched on TV and I was very sad because the fire service went in there and their equipment were not working, and so they had to rely on buckets of water to quench the fire.And I think that is not the best for us as a nation. What measures will you put in place to ensure that the fire attendants, either they’ll have more or whatever equipment they are using, will be maintained properly to serve us well? Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you, Chair.This is another orphan within the team, in the team that I’m going to be part, this is one of the serious orphans. And I can assure you that when I was taking the brief, I felt very sad, too. And it’s an area that, Mr. Chair, I’ll pay a lot of attention to, as all of us know.Just as fire is good to cook, fire is also good to destroy.

And the bottom line is that, I’m sorry to say this, Chair, all of us just think that God will take care of emergencies, God will take care of the negative things. Once every morning we wake up and we pray, everything will be okay.We do not just don’t want to follow through with our strategy of what if there’s fire, what do we do?

And Mr. Chairman, with a greater respect, I’ve been in this house for about two decades, and even this room, I’ve sat to do this, the assignment that you are doing, several. May God forbid, even now we hear a bam. We just only hear agyeeii and we’ll all be scattered.Nobody will know where to pass. Nobody is telling us even where we are.

In case there’s an emergency, where to pass? There are no signs, there are nothing.Most of the extinguishers that you may see around, are they really working? Nobody knows. Until there’s fire, then you go and lift it and realise that it is empty. Because we are not following through with the national strategy on fire prevention, which is part of our national security strategy.

One of the things that you notice is that in the briefing, I realise that since 2015, there are about 2015, 2016, there are about, government has not been able to procure any major equipment, apart from just about three hydraulic, what do you call it, ladders. No fire tender has been procured in the last nine or ten, almost ten years. So, what it means is that you and I are using vehicles.Even our vehicles that do not carry the kind of load that their weight entails.

After ten years, how easy is it to use that vehicle? You wake up and come, try to start it, it will not. But that’s the kind of virtually, for lack of a better word, obsolete equipment that we’ve left them with.And we expect them to be able to use it. And sometimes, unfortunately, with the citizens out of emotions, we try to even beat the fire officers. Because they’ve run to the place, then they are trying to start their gadgets, it’s not working, and then we say, ah, you see, the fire is going on, look at what the fire service guys are doing.I can bet you they are also not happy with the kind of equipment.

But that is what they have. And because they are obsolete, the time that you need, that’s when it fails.But one of the things that, by the grace of God, as part of the team, I will be doing, together with His Excellency, to be able to meet His Excellency John Dramani Mahama’s vision for the Ghana National Fire Service, is to ensure that we retool them, just as we stated it in our manifesto, on page 186, thereabout, we retool them, we make sure that they have the necessary equipment, so that they will be able to protect us when the need comes.

Look at the kind of market fires that we are having. It’s so sad that the markets are built, because they are with the local authority, they just don’t care about fire certificates.Many of us here, people come to my house, and when they see the fire, they say, hey, now this one, what is that? Isn’t that spoiling the beauty of the house? You are talking about your safety, and you are talking about beauty.

So, I think that all of us need to be very conscious and mindful. But I can assure you that, Honourable Colleague, this is an area that has been left as an orphan, and will definitely, and the sad thing is that with them, there is very little IGF they can reach.So, it makes it more difficult for them.

But by the grace of God, when this committee approves my nomination, and I get the minister to join the team, we will give it our very best to retool them so that they will be able to protect all of us. Thank you, Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. I recognise a follow-up question from Jerry Shaib.

Ahmed Jerry Shaib, MP, Weija-Gbawe: Thank you very much, Mr. chair. HonourableMuntaka, congratulations. Thank you. Just a follow-up.In my constituency, Weija-Gbawe, the fire tender has not worked for 13 years. I’ve heard you give assurances.

But I’m also thinking, do they get risk allowance, and how much are we thinking of upgrading that, if at all? Because I witnessed the fire gut a property in Gbawe. We had to call the next constituency, Anyaa-Sowutuom, to furnish this with the tender. At the time the tender came, the fire had already gutted the property. First of all, how do you intend to ensure that this is properly and comprehensively taken care of?

Bearing in mind the fire officers who take the risk to go, like you rightly stated, some of them are actually ostracised.When I was there, they threw stones at us. So, I just want to know how you intend to deal with that comprehensively, and if you are giving assurances, whether you have intentions of giving us some deadlines.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I really wish I could give assurance and even give timelines.And believe me, the timeline I have given would have been yesterday. Because these are institutions that are really suffocating. And I’m very happy that you brought a very important aspect of their challenge.The risk. Officers are dying because of inhalation of substance, what do you call it, smoke and what have you.

Sometimes they get burned.Sometimes they fall and get injured. And when they do this to protect us, we don’t even forget that we need to take care of them. If you care to know, the Ghana National Fire Service does not even have a clinic of their own.They fall on the Ghana Police and the Ghana Health Service. And sometimes the bills, because of the refund, the delay in releases, these hospitals do not even want to receive them.

So, imagine a fire officer wakes up from his house, just like you and I have done.Come to work, go to risk his or her life to try to protect us. Then he or she gets injured. We don’t have a facility to take care of him or her.They try to go and borrow money to get help in other places. It takes months for us to find. So, one of the things that I can assure you is that because we have part of the national security strategy, we have a strategy for prevention of fire at the fire service.

That encapsulates almost all these things that are in there. The answer that I gave earlier, I will ensure that we follow through. The team members, everybody should follow through with what is in the strategy.Because if we follow the strategy, we will not be sitting here talking about some of the things that are there. Because those answers will come by themselves. So that’s the assurance that I can give you.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Your last question.

Rita Sowah: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Honourable nominee, my leader. Having worked with you for four years in Parliament, I believe in your interpersonal skills.And I know it’s going to come to bear when you go to the ministry. I want you to assure us as members of Parliament that we will not come and queue too long at your door when we come to visit you.

Because some of us have experiences where you go to visit a colleague minister.You have to wait for about three hours, two hours. And I don’t think that is the best. And so, on that note, I want to wish you congratulations and the very best on your new appointment.Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I’m sure everyone around this table who have been in this house for the past four or eight or twelve, when I was government whip, no MP knocks on my door.The instruction for my secretary is that when MP comes, that is not your business. Whatever I’m doing in there, you let him or her come in. It is for me to say, oh, Honourable, can you give me five minutes or ten minutes, so that at least I know the MP is there.

It is not the business of my secretary to tell the MP to wait. I can tell you and assure you, my sister and colleague, I will take the same attitude to the ministry. When you come to my office, you will not have to wait.If you have to wait, maybe it’s because you yourself will see that I’m doing something and I’m able to give you time that if you have to go and come. But not to just come and the secretary will just tell you, wait.

Because instructions I always give, just as when I was the chief whip, the instruction is that no MP comes and you, secretary, tell the MP what to do.Yours is to just tell the MP, go. When the person comes in and the person sees that whatever I’m doing, if I tell the MP, oh, I’ll be done in an hour, I’ll be done in 30 minutes, I’ll be done in two hours, then the MP decides, oh, then, Honourable, I’ll go and come or I’ll wait. But not for you to let the MP be waiting when I don’t even know.That assurance I can give you. Thank you, Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much.I will now give the floor to Honourable Patrick Yaw Boamah.

Patrick Yaw Boamah, MP, Okaikoi Central: Thank you very much, Chair, andcongratulations. Leader, let’s do some business with the Narcotics Control Commission. It is estimated that about $21 billion will be generated from this business of medicinal cannabis.Last Parliament, we approved of the NACOC Act. And you are supposed to, God willing, insha Allah, you’ll be approved. The Minister is supposed to give effect to an L.I. towards the operationalisation of that very important law.

Ghanaians and the world will want to know, since it’s a very big trade and you require a lot of investment in there, we want to understand your strategies in licencing, regulation, and implementation of this very important law towards the realisation of the objectives of this Act for the good of this country, to drive lots of forex to show up our economy and our currency. Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I’m very aware of this bill. I remember the controversy that took us to even the Supreme Court, and then we came back to fix it.And it was levelled the regulation that was supposed to be laid, and then get the 22 answers in this. This has not been done. My take on this will be, when I join the team, obviously the NACOC board will be there.

The experts there will be there. Obviously, the new President, His Excellency John Dramani Mahama, will be made aware of the law. And I believe that once it’s in tandem with his vision for that sector, you can be rest assured I will lay it without delay.But obviously, I will have to listen to the experts there and as a team will make a definitive decision. And once it is in tandem with all of the existing, it’s about laying. You know, I know very well my way around this house and how to get things done.So, we’ll surely do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Patrick Boamah: I’m satisfied with the answers. Chairman, I don’t have a follow-up on that, but I’ll go to my second question, which is on small arms. I have a lot of friends up north.One recently came from the States, drove to his father’s village, Mr. Ndebugri’s son, my mate at the law school. He said, Yaw, when I get to Walewale, I have to speed and cross over to Bolga before I get to Zebila or Timonde, that’s the village.

There are a lot of unapproved routes, a lot of small arms in the hands of a lot of people.You talk to people, you say, ah, when you go to Bawku, the kind of arms you find there, Nkwanta, a lot of ethnic tensions, people have all sorts of arms. I’m sure you are aware. You are going to be in charge of internal security, basically.And a small arms commission will be under your care or watch.

There are a lot of unapproved routes. God willing, immigration will be under your care.Please, what can you tell Ghana or Ghanaians about some of the things you will be doing to control the proliferation of small arms into our country? Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. The concern of my colleague is real.It’s a big threat. And if we don’t watch it, it can really escalate. And you see in the areas where there are conflict, sometimes you wonder where they get the guns from.But the interesting thing is that it’s been noticed that most of these guns are coming through our borders and the port.

And the Commission for Small-Scale and Light Weapons, their challenge is they search manually. Just recently, let me take this opportunity to thank the German government for giving us an equipment that is able to detect guns by just bringing it closer to a vehicle.But it is only one. It is only one. But look at how large our borders are.We have a whole long stretch with Cote d’Ivoire, Burkina Faso, and Togo.

And people use this. So, they place it at the port.That machine is at the port. One of my first things that I would do as a member of the team when I joined the team, by the grace of God and with your approval, is to see what steps we can take to acquire more of such gadgets. So that when you stop a vehicle, immediately you go around it.You can tell that there’s a gun in there. And to show you specifically within the vehicle where it is.

If we do that, it will help even the movement around with it. Because sometimes they use motorbikes and they hide them, conceal them around the motorbike. And then when you stop them, before you realise, the person is already sitting on it. So, you don’t even know where it is hidden.But if there are gadgets that can help you do that, that would be so useful.

We need to also empower the peace council, Mr. Chair. You see, all of us are taking the peace we have for granted.Our country is peaceful. So, because of that, investors are happy to come. We are able to wake up and go around everywhere.I mean, I have senate friends, Nigerian senators as friends. And each time they come to Ghana, one of the things that they tell me is that, Muntaka, you guys, do everything humanly possible to keep this peace that you have. Because they wonder that the way we move around, you don’t look back.

But if we don’t build the peace using peace council, and we leave peace council to be suffocating the way it is, the day that, may God forbid, challenges, major one comes, it will be difficult. Why are people wanting to keep those guns? They want to keep those guns because they think they can use that to protect themselves. We need to, and you know, my good friend and colleague, Article 270 of the 1992 Constitution bar us, even Parliament, from attempting to do anything about Chieftaincy.It has to be done by the National House of Chiefs.

Maybe we need to encourage the National House of Chiefs to call a national dialogue on Chieftaincy and his future in our country. If we don’t build peace around that, because it is those things that make people want to have guns.And lastly, Mr. Chair, pump action. It is very easy, if you have, what do you call it, 10,000, you can buy the pump action and licence it.

So, there’s so much of pump action.It’s one of the things that when I joined the team, we may have to review. Because we all think that, oh, it is a side arms that it has to take only the Minister of Interior to authorise. After a pump action, oh, you can easily acquire it.

But they are equally arms that are dangerous. So, these are some of the things that, when I joined the team by the grace of God, together with the aspect in mind with our national security strategy, we will be putting in place to ensure that we at least minimise, to the barest minimum, the use of live arms. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Patrick Boamah: Thank you, Chair. I also don’t have a follow-up on that.I have a last question on NADMO. They want to hear from you their promotions. Some of them are saying they’ve been sitting in one office for many years.And they are not well equipped. And they want to hear your voice and believe in you, that you do something different for them as Minister of Interior. On that note, let me wish the leader success at the Interior Ministry.Thank you. God bless you.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair.God bless you, too. Mr. Chair, when I took the briefing, I just realised why we are having most of the challenges that we have. One, we have a national security strategy on disaster management, and we are not following through.We have this huge organisation, NADMO, that we are not paying attention to. The law that we have is comprehensive enough. And if my memory serves me right, it is Act 927.Act 927.

If you go there, Mr. Chair, you will see how nationally we need to have this emergency committee, regional and district. And in the case of the national, it is multi-sectorial.Yet when something happens in our rush, then we go and say, oh, we are forming inter-ministerial. And I always say, when COVID came, we went and set up inter-ministerial. That was the function of NADMO.The same thing, when the spillage happened, we went and set up inter-ministerial.

The more we do that, the more we weaken NADMO. Because it’s like you are saying that you have an organisation, like you have a vehicle.It has fuel. It is serviceable. Then you call Uber, that they should come and lift you.Any time you want to go out, there’s someone come and say, ah, but what about this vehicle? Why is this spoilt? Oh, the vehicle is good.

Oh, let me start it for you to see. You start it, it’s working.You move it, but you park it. And then every day you are calling for Uber. That’s what we are doing.So, yes, it’s an area that we need to pay attention to. Because if we do it right, and one of the things that I would do specifically is that when I joined the team, the team in NADMO must let us as a group see quarterly, are the districts complying? Are the regions complying? And what are we ourselves doing nationally?

Because if we can meet just four times in a year to ask ourselves, in case of emergency, what do we do? I’m sure it would be the beginning of trying to deal with it. With the staffing, it is generally a problem within the security services where people, you heard the first question that came, about promotion, about transfers, about the condition of service.

It’s an area that I would engage there if, by the grace of God, this committee approves of my nomination and Parliament does so, engage the finance minister for us to appreciate that those who protect us also matter. Because if they protect us well, like I said earlier, people will be willing to invest, and then that finance minister will make more money. So, it is important that we take care of them so that their morale is high, so they will be able to protect us and then protect the whole country.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. I proceed to recogniseHonourable Bryan Acheampong, doctor.

Bryan Acheampong, MP, Abetifi: Thank you, Honourable, and congratulations. My position on your qualification is consistent with Article 78 of the Constitution.Except when the President, after this vetting, withdraws your nomination, I don’t believe anything can stop you from being confirmed. You’ve been in this House for 20-plus years, your sixth term in Parliament, and therefore you are overqualified for the position. My questions are to get your views on some of the issues on small arms promotions and de-politicisation of the services.

These are the three categories that I want us to talk about. But before that, you mentioned that you worked with JICA briefly. It’s not listed in your CV, if you can correct that, because it’s the House of records.And then also you listed Minister for Youth and Sports as a leadership position instead of employment. But that is a job, so you have to correct that on the CV. On the issue of small arms, in 2004 there were about 240,000 small arms usage in this country.

That number surged in 10 years. In 2014, to 2.3 million small arms use. It is projected that in 2024 that number will be about 5 million.That projects to about one in six Ghanaians carrying a weapon. One in six Ghanaians carrying a weapon. Honourable Patrick Boamah did hint on that question, and you gave a very general answer.But I want Ghanaians to have confidence in what you can do to stem this. We don’t, as you have said repeatedly, when something happens, what will happen?

We don’t even have enough security people to stand such a mob action with weapons. And in this election, what I saw, the people that are carrying arms before, during, and after the elections, is not something that we should joke with.Honourable Minister, kindly give us an idea, if you can, if you can’t. If you can, give us an idea what you can do. If one in five Ghanaians is carrying, or six Ghanaians is carrying a weapon, it’s a dangerous territory.Give us an idea what you may want to do about this.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I mean, the concern of my colleagues is genuine.And like I said, you are working, I’m going to join a team that is full of experts that have long years of experience and have experience of other jurisdictions. But as a member of the team, if I join, one of the major things that I may want to do immediate is the introduction of IT to track who has been given gun and for what purpose was the gun given or approved for.

If you can have database, that is computerised.With the touch of a button, I can know, maybe those of us around this table, who and who has been licenced to carry whether small arm or even larger arm. It will be the beginning to help in the national security strategy in terms of surveillance and knowing and tracking what people are using them for.

As we speak, I want to believe that if, like you rightly said, you are projecting about 5 million, maybe if you go to the ministry, and I know you’ve worked at the national security ministry before, if you go there and you want to really put your fingers to who and who have really registered this, even those who may have a permit, it may shock you to know that you don’t have the data that you can at a go look at.

And I think that the starting point is that let us measure because it is only when you measure that you can achieve. If we know who and who are truly holding it, then we’ll be able to make our surveillance very effective. Then, like I rightly said earlier, we need to make sure that we are really very serious with the proliferation, the entry points, where they are, when people are moving around with it.

If we have these gadgets, I’m sure it is going to help us. As a team, you know the police are most of the time on the road or in the main community. They are more closer to the communities than probably maybe the small arm.If you look at the number of offices, the commission has fewer as compared to the police, Ghana Police Service. Collaboration as a team, I’m sure, we should be able to minimise the proliferation and also be able to track even the usage. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Before the follow-up. Honourable nominee, we all know, you are very intelligent, but let’s keep the answers very brief.

Muntaka: Chairman I will make conscious efforts to make the answers very, very brief. Chairman: Thank you very much. Dr. Bryan Acheampong, your next question.

Bryan Acheampong: A follow-up on that. Since we are in an operation recover mode, are you able to, when you take office, launch an operation recover small arms by the Ghana small arms because it’s frightening. And this, the figure that I mentioned, the Ghana small arms reports, that about only 50% of that, that is a 2004 data, only 50% of that is registered arms.

There is unregistered, illicit weapons. So, can we, can you launch a programme? I mean, in advanced countries they launch a programme, tender in your weapon and get some cash, do this and get this thing, so that at least we can reduce the number of weapons in circulation. It’s quite frightening.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I can assure my colleague that with the team, we’ll look at that because we can get maybe non-governmental organisations that may be able to support us. We can grant amnesty because some people may be having it. They are even afraid that it will be seen on them.

Maybe when they wanted it, there was some reason why they wanted it. Now they have it, they can’t register it, but they want to tender it, but they are afraid. We can give some amnesty window period for that and probably look at the exchange for cash or exchange for some kind. But like I said, when I joined the team, we have more experts there and we’ll put our heads together to see what we can do in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Bryan Acheampong: Thank you, Honourable Nominee. I’m encouraged by this last statement of yours. Honourable Nominee, on the issue of promotions and transfers, promotions are usually based on time in grade and time in service.When the time comes, I’m supposed to say four years, I move to the next rank. Four years, I don’t need the prompting of any person. I don’t need it to look as though it’s a favour from a superior.I’ve done my time and promotion is due me.

Except for when there’s a vacancy issue at the top, which in that case, you are paid by the rank that you have achieved. But because there’s no vacancy, okay, you will have to wait to then fill the rank.I’m not sure if you understand the question. So, I’m supposed to be four years at Lieutenant Colonel, four years, I get to Lieutenant Colonel, I’m Colonel. If there’s no vacancy at the Colonel rank, I am still being paid as a Colonel-elect, but I don’t have the position to occupy.But I’ve made, I’ve bid my time.

Is it possible that you can ensure that promotions and in the police services, all the agencies under you, is by time in grade and time in service? Because I’ve read reports of police people for political expediency, when they are due promotions, they don’t get their promotions, and then they are juniors passing them by. That we can institute a policy of time in grade, time in service, such that when you hit that time mark, you get your promotion.And then on transfers.

Transfers in this country, Mr. Chairman, are seen as, in some cases, punishment. This is one question, promotions and transfers.Transfers are seen as a punishment. We will transfer you to somewhere the sun doesn’t shine, is what you hear from your superiors. Honourable, can we find a mechanism where when you enlist into a service, you know that this is going to be my operational area, that you elect.

And once you are confirmed into that operational area, that I elect to be in the Volta region, that I will operate within the Volta region, so that it doesn’t be that you are from Accra, or you are from Walewale, and you are transferred to Accra, and that is all where you want to live your life. Yes, I’m a policeman. Yes, I’m a prison officer.But I want to really live my life in a certain geographical area.

So, can we find a policy? Can we do something about these transfers, such that if you are transferring me within the Eastern region, I’m okay with it. But I’m from the Eastern region.I’m a human being. I want to live all my life in the Eastern region. And then you transfer me to Nzulenzu, where, yes, I’m in a force, but I don’t want to live.

So, all my time in Nzulenzu, I am unhappy. I can’t give my best to the nation, and so on and so forth. So, this issue of promotions and transfer, Honourable Minister, God will see you through.But when you are there, what will you want to do about these two issues that I have talked about? Thank you very much.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier, I tried to answer this question, but the assurance I would give my colleague is that, working with the team that I’m joining, we’ll put in mechanism to make this very transparent, and then some of the concern that you are carrying on, we’ll look at it as a team and see the best way we will be able to deal with it.

Because, you see, I’ve said it and I’m repeating, the law says at least. So, if it says at least four years, it means that you can be there for eight years. We should be careful this mechanical promotion.I agree. But then what would be the motivating factor if I get up every morning, I brace it, I work so hard, and in working hard most of the time, as you and I may know, I even get the wrath of the institution because I make mistakes and I can get punished.

Or you decide to sleep and just wait for the four years, and then the time comes, we’ll all get promoted.Why wouldn’t I also go and sleep? So, we’ll all be sleeping and then we’ll just be counting the months and the years. It gets that they we will get promoted.

So, we need to strike a need balance, and because of that need balance, definitely there are aspects, there are other ways of doing it in other direction, together with the team, we’ll put our heads together to overcome this challenge.But I’ll take the concern that you have raised seriously, and I assure you we’ll do the best that we can. Thank you, Chair.

Bryan Acheampong: Chair, a follow-up on this. I agree with him, but when you are recruited into the service, you are expected to work hard. But if you work harder, you can be promoted above your colleagues.And in the same vein, if you are lazy and you decide that you sleep, there are administrative queries that can be put in place such that you also don’t progress. But what we are talking about is all things being equal.

That you have bid your time, and you have been in the service for the time, and you are due for promotion.I’ll move to my third question, which is on the depoliticisation of the services. Honourable Minister, in the last election, 2024, there was a security task force on elections. They did quite well, quite commendable, led by the CDS and then the IGP and other heads of services.

We’re grateful for their service. But nominee, you realise that in almost all the polling stations across the country, the security personnel that were deployed there did nothing to stop anything that was happening. Because they were not too sure who was going to win, and what would befall them if they take an action against the other person.That is what happened at almost every polling station.

In fact, what we saw on TV, at the coalition centres, what we saw on TV is where people were being jacked up. At coalition centres and police people, military officers, were just looking on because people were just not too sure.Indeed, the Electoral Commission…(audio cut)

Muntaka: …and I’ve said this thousand and one times, even on the floor of the House, if we play around with everything that we do with excessive partisanship, then everything we do will become politics. We will all pay the price for it. I agree we need to depoliticise, and His Excellency John Rahman Muhammad, as part of his vision, himself has stated that in paragraph 183 of our manifesto, that we’ll take steps to depoliticise our security services.

If you take, for example, the example you gave about the elections, I just like, I mean, frankly speaking, how the police operated. Why? People thought that they were going to do this in the getaway, destroy material and do this, and they were taking the videos, the CCTV there, and as we speak, about 150 people have been arraigned before God.

I can assure you, by the grace of God, if this committee approves of my nomination, I will ensure that they are prosecuted.I will support the team to make sure that justice is done, so that if you know someone who had gone violently to do something, and now he’s been arrested, and he’s been prosecuted, and he truly gets prosecuted, next time when it is going to happen, you know, because, you see, one of the things that the police did that was good, was that they refused to use firearms, because if they had, now we’ll have encountered a number of deaths, and you realise that in this election, there was not a single gunshot from the police.

Some came from the military, some came from private citizens, but not the police. But all the perpetrators, as many as possible, and my check says 150 of them, I will support the team to make sure that each of them is brought to justice, no matter who is involved, because, you see, if we don’t do that, and then now I look and I say, oh, this is a Muntaka, oh, can you do something about it, and he get away with it, why would a Bryan Acheampong also not get away with it?

But if you see that a Muntaka is being dealt with, then Bryan Acheampong will know that, well, guess what he’s saying? I mean, he can’t get away with it.And for me, I keep saying, I mean, Mr. Chair, my faith tells me in the Holy Quran that God himself says he hates injustice. He is just, and he hates injustice, and it would be unfair for people to just do the wrong thing and use political covering and hide away from it. I will not encourage that.

His Excellency John Dramani Mahama has stated that in our manifesto as part of his vision, and I will support that, and we’ll make sure that the right thing is done. It’s not going to be easy, it will come with backlash, but we’ll be determined to stand by the vision of His Excellency John Dramani Mahama to ensure that the right thing is done, so that at least, even if we don’t succeed in eliminating this excessive partisanship in our security services, we’ll bring it to the barest minimum. Thank you, Chair.

Bryan Acheampong: Thank you, Honourable Leader. I am generally encouraged by your posture on the promotions on the matter of small arms and the depoliticisation of the services. I can assure you that the process that you start in depoliticising the services, insha Allah, the next NPP government will continue from there.Now, on the issue of, on a lighter note, HonourableMuntaka, when you are receiving a gun salute, you have to be at attention. You were too relaxed in receiving that gun salute, and it wasn’t impressive. You have to be at attention.Congratulations, nominee, and I wish you very well.

Muntaka: Well, Mr. Chair, I was vehemently against that shooting in my house, because I told them that, no, that was why I came out, and I’ve since made the officer to apologise, and it’s also gone viral, because I don’t think that that was right. Yes.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. I’ll proceed to give the floor to Honourable Hajia Laadi Ayamba.You have the floor, Hajia.

LaadiAyiiAyamba, MP, Pusiga: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the opportunity. Salam Alaikum, Alhaji. Let me start by congratulating you and saying that may the Almighty Allah continue to bless and protect you, and that His will be done.Mr. Chairman, I just want to ask something, which is very, very relevant, because I come from the Bawku enclave.I am a Moshi. You are a Dagomba.

So many Dagombas behind there.So many Kusasi’s around. So many Mamprusi’s around, and we all know the route that we are coming from. That is the Mole-Dagbani area or route, and Naa Gbewa himself has his grave in my constituency.That is Pusiga. So Pusiga is the almighty place. Will you, as the Minister for Interior, and who will have to take up the issue of this crisis in Bawku, come in and let us understand that we are one and the same people, and so we should stop all this hullabaloo that is dividing us.Will you do that? And that apart, I will just say a very big, big, big congratulation to you. I wish you the best, and you take care of yourself. You know it better than I do.

Muntaka: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. I can give my sister the assurance that I will be very interested in assisting the team and his Excellency John Dramani Mahama to achieve that vision that he promised the Bawku people, that we’ll do everything humanly possible to ensure that peace returns, not only in Bawku, but all the other areas across our country that are having these packets of challenges.

And that’s why earlier I said the time has come for us to dispassionate about this and call for a national conference on the future of our chieftaincy, so that we’ll be able to know that aside all these things that we are here, if anybody, if a UK citizen walks into this room, it will be very difficult for that person to look at us and say this person is that.

Maybe apart from maybe our height and complexion, the person will not be able to differentiate us, and yet we consistently try to show that we are different. But I believe that with the commitment that His Excellency John Dramani Mahama has given and his vision, me being his rep at the Ministry of Interior, together with the team that I’m going to join, will support that vision to ensure that peace, permanent peace, returns not only in Boko, but all the other areas that are having these challenges.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. The floor is now given to Honourable Peter LancheneToobu.

Peter LancheneToobu, MP, Wa West: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Honourable Minister-designate, congratulations. I think I take this opportunity to thank His Excellency President John Dramani Mahama for nominating you to this position. As one of my colleagues said, barring any last-minute change, nothing will stop you from becoming the next Minister of Interior. When you were taking your oath, I was observing you.You appear serious as a man of faith.

When you find a political mentee asking his political mentor a question publicly, it might not necessarily be about me, but it’s just all about the people who are watching us. You’ve mentored him in this house for four years.Mr. Minister-designate, please, you had a relationship with the Minister for Local Government, Chieftaincy and Religious Affairs for many years in this house before I came.

God has designed it. He is now the Minister for Local Government, Chieftaincy and Religious Affairs.You are going as Minister for Interior. That relationship is necessary to ensure that John Dramani Mahama, His Excellency, can reset Ghana in the area of chieftaincy dispute. How will this relationship, as I’ve defined it, be able to assist you? Bring peace to Bawku one, bring peace to many of the places that we have curfew?

Muntaka: … (audio cut) he and I campaigned together and you join us in Wenchi. So, the gel is there. My prayer and hope are that the cordial relationship that existed between us, we are almost like a family, will translate it into better output for the benefit of the Ghanaian population by working very hard, collaborating with even other colleagues to ensure that not only in Bawku do we have peace, but all over where there are these challenges.

And like I said, because in the Constitution, Article 270, debar Parliament from even passing laws that has to do with chieftaincy, our hands seem to be tied.But what probably my colleague and I, if by the gifts of God, we are able to sail through Parliament, will do is to collaborate effectively with the National House of Chiefs and Regional House of Chiefs so that they can fast-track the codification of the line of succession.

Because if the line of succession is documented and all of us know that, oh, after Peter comes HajiaZuera and after HajiaZuera, it can only be HajiaLaadi, it makes it easy. It takes away the doubt where Muntaka will just come and run in between, probably because Muntaka has money, or he’s coming from a bigger family, or he’s coming from, for lack of a better word, a more vigorous family.

So, he and I will work very closely to assist the National House of Chiefs fast-track this codification. And I’m sure when they’re able to do that, it will go a long way to help us. And let me take this opportunity to thank the Asantehene for the role that he’s also playing, and we’ll try to work very closely with him.Having been, I mean, Asantehene, that has helped in the Dagbon, he’s been helping in so many other places. It is our hope he’ll continue to provide his wise counsel and make his services available in assisting the government to be able to fast-track to get peace in all these areas across our country. Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. I will give the floor to Honourable Ntim Fordjour

Rev John Ntim Fordjour, MP, Assin South: Thank you very much, Honourable Chair.Congratulations, Honourable Muntaka Mhammed Mubarak, on your nomination to the well-deserved position. Given that you are a very respected member of this House, a sixth-term member of Parliament, and an experienced leader of the House, and appointed to the position of the Ministry of Interior, you will be expected, among other things, to provide advice to the President on very serious matters of security sector governance, including advice to the President on the appointment or revocation of appointment of heads of various security agencies.

Now, there are two schools of thought.One that posits that, in deepening security sector governance and promoting professionalism, it is important that even when presidential turnover occurs, at a time when heads of security agencies may have served their term midway or at the beginning of serving their term, it is important to maintain them to serve the full term in order to ensure that professionalism is strengthened and integrity of the security services are strengthened.

On the other side, there is another school of thought which also posits that, in order to court political loyalty, when presidential turnover occurs, leadership will have to change heads of various security agencies and to revoke appointments of heads of agencies and appoint new ones deemed to be loyal to the succeeding government. Which of these school of thoughts do you belong to and would you promote in advising the President, considering the fact that countries or jurisdictions who have practised the latter have eroded gains in their security sector governance, integrity and have been on the path of declining security? Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Chair. Chair, I mean, my colleague and I have been in this house for some time and he, I’m sure if he takes the hands that he will see my line of thought. I strongly believe that if we all put national interest first, and I mean well just as you mean well, why should I doubt your actions? So why not allow continuity?

But you also know, sometimes you come and meet a situation where, with the greater respect, I know I’ve met my team and the team that I’m hopefully going to join as a member, the heads of security, and I can see the competence.But in some instances, you come and meet people, there are just round holes, what you call squares in round holes.

Allowing that affects the national interest, because they were not put based on national interest. They were put based on political interest.If you allow that to continue, then you are also not being free to the national interest. So, it will be very difficult to choose one side of your coin, because the exigencies and the time and the circumstances will determine which one you go for.

Because frankly speaking, if all of us were very professional in the way everything gets done, why should you even be bothered about who you are coming to meet as your secretary in the office, or who you are coming to meet as the driver of the minister, if the person is so professional? You just sit and go because you are sure that the person has your back.

But if the circumstances under which the person himself was given that position is questionable, and the actions and inactions of that person over the period, there are so many gaps. Allowing that to continue will be injurious to the national interest. So, it has to be dealt with case by case, but you cannot have this kind of one-size-fits-all.

If you have that one-size-fits-all, I don’t think it will be in the national interest. But just take each case and look at the merit and demerit of staying or leaving, and then act appropriately, and making sure that when you are also going to do that, be mindful that you are also doing that in the best national interest. Thank you, Chair.

Rev Ntim: Thank you, Honourable Chair. Just a short follow-up.Considering the extensive experience of the nominee being the leader of this House for a very long time, and his extensive interaction with the heads of the various security agencies incumbent, and during his interactions and briefings so far, out of the ten heads of the various agencies that you’ll be heading, do you find any incumbents to be possessing traits of being a square peg put in a round hole?

Muntaka: Well, Chairman, that would be extremely difficult to tell. Because, frankly speaking, from a distance, the way you may see an individual may be completely different from when you get closer, and then when you get all the facts. So, it is when I get in, then you now have to get all the facts.When you are privy to all the facts, that’s when you can be able to answer whether this person is best.

Because also remember, the government has its vision and aspiration. And sometimes, if, for example, I am the type that will not be able to help His Excellency to achieve his vision and objective for this country, when the Ghanaian have trusted him, why should I stay? Because my attitude, my belief, my professionalism is contrary to the kind of vision and aspiration that he has.And he is the one who is being elected.

Why should I be the one to say, not because I’m not good, but the match is just not there. So, it is better to give way for somebody who can come and help him to achieve his objective.So once the facts are bare, I’m sure His Excellency John Dramani Mahama will not, he has stated it in our manifesto, and I want to believe that he means what he stated in our manifesto.

He will mean well. He wants to leave legacy.Mine is to assist him in achieving this legacy. So, we will not be acting based on favouritism, based on hearsay, based on what we want, but I want to believe that the advice, if it becomes necessary, that I will give His Excellency will be based on the best national interest. And I want to believe that he will also act in the best national interest.Thank you, Chair.

Rev Ntim: Thank you. Honourable chair, my last question.Ghana’s democracy is one that is very enviable. We’ve gone through five turnovers very successfully. Even one, others think that once you pass two turnover tests, your democracy has consolidated. However, one factor that is still inimical to the sterling democratic credentials we have is the rather unfortunate phenomenon, perennial, perennial across various transitions of post-election violence.

You have provided responses to certain specific aspects of this, but specifically, in response, in an earlier response to a question that you gave, brilliantly and eloquently so provided, you indicated your preference for commission of enquiry in specific cases where you think that that would be appropriate. And even cited an incident of killings, which you are aware, and one commission of enquiry was constituted. It fast-tracked investigations and prosecutions and served justice promptly.

Considering the magnitude of the post-election violence that we have seen this year, would you support those calling for commission of enquiry into specific acts, the attack on the AngloGold Ashanti Obuasi mine, for instance, and certain specific killings that took place in some constituencies to augment on the already investigations and prosecutions you had identified? Thank you. I wish you the very best. I have every confidence in your ability to support the president to succeed, and I know you yourself will succeed. God’s speed.

Muntaka: Thank you very much. Chair, I can assure my colleague that I have very good experts as a team that I’m going to join by the gifts of God.All these things will be reviewed. But let me take this opportunity as a chair to say I’ve been around for some time. I remember very well I was a member of the cabinet of the late President Mills when, after winning power, he insisted that we cannot continue doing this tit-for-tat forever and all of us tagged him father for all.

I remember MMDCEs even had to stay for about six months and all that he sacrificed. I mean, he stood the ground. We pushed.That time many of us were much younger with a lot of youthful exuberance. I remember in cabinet, I would say, ah, when you do this, you yourself, in your house, they came and took cars when you were not around and harassed the second lady, President Rawlings, they did this all that. I mean, emotionally, spoke around the cabinet table. Then he said, look, you are young. If you don’t learn to forgive, God will not forgive you. So let us push all this thing behind us. He did all that.

Unfortunately for us, when power changed in 2017, we went back to the 2001 behaviour. And it nullified the sacrifice President Mills made. I must admit, ask the police, the security experts, the post-election violent, all that we have seen. I condemned them.His Excellency John Dramani Mahama condemned it. I remember, he even called the then president to act. But believe me, they were nowhere near some of the things that happened in 2017.

That is the way we need to be truthful to ourselves. That look, what is good for you is equally good for me. We should all be acting knowing that you mean well, I also mean well.It’s just that this time, you have been chosen over me, and I’ll be patient. The next time, I may be chosen over you. But when we make it look as if that once I have been chosen, I have to show you where power lies.I have to stumble on you and step on your neck so that you can feel the pain of loss. Then this thing will perpetuate.

And my fear is that one day, one day, it may get out of hand and all of us will regret.I don’t think we need to wait to get there. That is why, again, I remember very well the late chairman of the NDC, Dr. Kwabena Adjei. I remember I was part of FEC then, when he said, look, we are in power.Let us show the good gesture first. Let us go to the NPP headquarters to visit them, so we the political actors will start talking, so we can de-escalate the tension.

I remember, that time too, I remember very young. Ah, Chairman, you want us to go NPP when we are in power? Why? You want us to look like we are weak? When we have power, why can’t we be seen as if we are afraid of them? He refused as an elderly statesman. We went, visited the NPP at their party headquarters, had time, chatted and interacted, and they promised they were going to return that visit.

I don’t know whether it is going to happen tomorrow.So, when that didn’t happen, then everybody was telling, ah, Dr. Kwabena Adjei, we told you. So let we the political actors, I mean, I’ve been in this House long enough, and I just say it with apology. Napo is my brother.We are like twins. We grew up together in the city, Kumasi. His father was like a father to me.My mother is like a mother to him. But he belongs to NPP.

I’m in NDC.Since he became the MP for Manhyia, before him, I was, I came to parliament before him. Before him, there was always conflict between Asawase and Manhyia. The constituents were always fighting violently.When he became an MP, and we kept that relationship, ah, they will see him visit me. His constituents will see me visit him. Why would they fight?

The fight stopped.And for almost 16 years, there had never been any conflict between Asawase and Manhyia South. So let us, we all sitting around this table, mean well, extend courtesies to each other, and think about each other in the good sense. When we do that, I’m sure most of these things will not be happening.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Chairman: Thank you very much. It’s now the turn of Alhaji Alhassan Umar.

Alhaji Alhassan Umar, MP, Zabzugu: Thank you, Chairman. Leader, ordinarily, I wouldn’t have asked a question because when I entered this Parliament eight years ago, you were my mentor.I asked questions. I learned a lot from you, and I’m still proud of you. And I know you’re going do an excellent job.I know who you are.

I know your principles. I want to ask you a question which disturbs almost every minority in this country, and it is an issue concerning police brutality.Recently, the recent issue is even in the Ashanti region, Ejura. A suspect under police custody died without any explanation and causes, and several. Leader, I want you to tell us how you will address the issue of police brutality and ensure accountability.Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Earlier, I believe, if you remember, someone asked a question.I was talking about the body cameras. I also believe that the time has come for us to put CCTVs in all our police stations and cells. I have my phone, and I have more than 15 different CCTVs on almost all my property, and I can sit here and view and review.Once something happens, I can go back and check.

They are not that expensive, but what they do to help us in dealing with all this will be tremendous. I’m going to join a team, and I believe that the team, they are experts in their own right, will go to look at the possibility of emulating other good examples by making sure that in all our police stations, we have CCTV in the charge office, in the cells, in all its environments.

I know I’ve visited some police stations, especially at the divisional level and regional, and I see that they have CCTVs around. We need to be able to get this in every police station as much as possible, because, I believe, the most important thing in my mind is solar. They are just solar, so they don’t rely on the lights to go on and go off, but they are not expensive.So, these are ideas that, when I join the team, I will share with the experts, and let’s see the possibility of doing this.

Because when we do this, then if someone dies, we all know you are a Muslim like me. If my time is not up, I’m sure you can hurt me, I can get wounded, but I won’t die.But even when I get hurt, we can be able to review. Did you beat me, or maybe I slept? Did I die naturally, or you killed me? All those things can be reviewed, and it takes away the suspicion. Because, you see, the reason you see this, and the violence that you see, is mistrust.

And sometimes, because of the past credibility gap that we’ve had, where the police say, oh, we are investigating, nothing comes out of it, nobody hears anything. Even if they finish the investigation, and maybe they will probably punish the perpetrators, the public don’t know. So, when something happens, they become so suspicious and decide to take the laws into their hands.

But if we have all these measures, like these cameras that I’m seeing, that can be reviewed, and be shown to the world, oh, this is truly what happened. One, the policemen themselves will be careful about the abuses, and then we’ll be able to also know the truth, anytime something happens. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Alhassan Umar: Thank you, leader. I wish you well, and congratulations.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, my brother.

Chairman: Thank you. May I give the floor to Honourable Jerry Shaib.

Jerry Ahmed: Thank you very much, Honourable Chair.Honourable Chair, I’m more interested in the welfare issues of the security agencies, because, I mean, the Gas will normally say that…, to wit, who much is expected of, much is given. They do a lot of work, especially when they want to remain professional.

The issues, including insurance for security agencies or personnel, the issues including salaries, and where they even sleep, their attire, allowances, delayed payments in these allowances, even petty loans for them to even acquire basic cars, 1.2, 1.3 engine vehicles, for them to do some movement around.Honourable, from all your answers, you’ve indicated that you are the man of the people. How do you intend to bridge this gap, the gap of poverty within even the security agencies? Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much.I mean, you’re speaking to the Pope, when it comes to this, I mean, when I first became a member of Parliament in Asawase, there was only one police station at the airport police station. I think Commander One is here. He was then, became, Regional Commander later, and together with him, we built some more.And the shocking thing was that the barracks that they had in Asawase, that was the airport police station, they were using pan latrine. Pan latrine. That was around 2015, thereabouts.

And I said, how can you dehumanise the police this way? They were using pan latrine, where they ease themselves. So, I built a 20-seater WC for them, through the initiative of Common Fund and other things. But I know currently, especially the Ghana Police Service, they’ve been able to create a welfare fund, that other citizens are helping and contributing.

To the extent that, I’m told, even though I’m yet to get there, to get the full facts, in the last three, four years, no police officer, no matter your ailment, the police themselves are able to deal with it, without necessarily following on GOG. It is something that I would encourage the other team, because I’m joining the team, so can we look at how we can emulate this with the other team?

Can we get, yes, government to do more, but can we get also private individuals to support? Can people who God has endowed be able to support our security people, so they can support us? I mean, I always read widely, and I remember Carnegie, one of the richest guys in America, who says, I’ll spend half of my life looking for money, and I spend the other half giving it out to charity.

In this part of our world, we are not very good as charitable giving, like I mentioned, what Pentecost did in assisting the prison service.Let us all learn, yes, we’ll push GOG, government, to do this, but because of the enormous nature of the challenges, if I can get all the teams that I’m joining, the prison service, the narcotics, the small arms, gaming commission, all of them, to be able to have this kind of endowment, where maybe annually, we launch a programme, and citizens, non-governmental organisations, non-profit organisations, can willingly donate, because of supporting us, security services. I’m sure it will go a long way to deal with most of the challenges that you’re talking about. Thank you, Chair.

Jerry Ahmed: Yes, just a follow-up. HonourableMuntaka, so what happens to those who are also looking for retirement benefits? What have we put in place to streamline and expedite pension processing for retirement security personnel?

Muntaka: Well, Chair, thank you very much.I mean, His Excellency John Dramani Mahama in the NDC manifesto, if you check, has said that he’s going to ensure that the cap 30 is there, and then review it and improve it. That, I can assure you, that will work very closely, as his representative at the Ministry of Interior, to ensure that this is done, because, like I said much earlier, without morale in the services, you can bring all the tankers, you can bring all the guns, you can bring all the accoutrements.

The men to manage, if they are not, if their morale is low, will have a challenge.So, like I repeatedly said, we have a national security strategy. My bid is that the parts that we have to do with internal security of our country, we will adhere to them very strongly, and a part of it is about this, their condition of service. So, you can rest assured that this is something that will take up very seriously.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.Jerry Ahmed: His Excellency President Mahama is currently driving a very beautiful V8. The procurement of that V8, whether or not it meets security standards, and whether or not, as Minister of Interior, you would agree that it is a presidential vehicle, that properly so-called.

Muntaka: Chair, unfortunately, I don’t have these facts. In fact, he’s talking about four-wheel drive.I’ve seen so many four-wheel drives. All of us here drive four-wheel drive. If I sit here and I tell you that I know what type of four-wheel drive His Excellency the President is driving, I would be untruthful for you.But as his representative at the Ministry of Interior, part of our responsibility, the team at Ministry of Interior, is to make sure the President is secured.

I can assure you that when the opportunity comes, when this House, by the grace of God, approves of my nomination, when I join the team, these are things that we’ll review and definitely, if it doesn’t meet the purpose, obviously we’ll ensure that, we’ll humbly and respectfully advise the President. But remember, the President is not just a first-time President.

He’s been President before and I want to believe he’s very much aware of most of these things. But obviously, when we get there, we’ll look at that and if there’s some advice that we can give His Excellency, why not? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Jerry Ahmed: Honourable Chair, still on the welfare of the security agencies, vis-a-vis how they are seen to be dealing with the public and public trust, what mechanisms are you going to put in place to ensure that the security agencies would have a lot of stakeholder engagement with the people so that trust is reposed in them?

Muntaka: Well, thank you very much.I must admit that I’ve seen videos and pictures of the top hierarchy of the police, led by the IGP, in our secondary schools, in some primary schools, in some junior high schools, interacting with community. It is something that we need to encourage. Not only the Ghana Police Service, because for example, the Ghana National Fire Service even needs to even do more of that.

But all of them sometimes hinges on resources and this is something that I keep calling that the non-governmental organisation, non-profit organisation that can assist us as a team to be able to do more of this kind of engagement. Why not? We’ll be happy because that will help the citizen to get closer, to tell us what their perception is about us and then we’ll also know then be able to have basis for correction and improving what the team will be doing.

So, I can assure you that we’ll be encouraging more of that to be done, the interaction with the general community.I mean, and it’s also in line with the vision of His Excellency John Dramani Mahama, when you look at him, when he says that our security architecture, we are going to review to make sure that it is more community based.

Involvement of the community should be more. So, we’ll be looking at that and like I keep repeating, these are experts in their own right.I mean, they’ve been in the services for long, they’ve seen it all, they’ve travelled across the world. We’ll put our heads together to see how we can improve and get the communities to trust us more, so that we’ll be able to improve what we are doing. Thank you, sir.

Jerry Ahmed: Mr. Chairman, that will be all for the witness. I wish you very well.

Muntaka: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Chairman: Thank you very much. I’ll proceed to give the floor to Honourable Minority Leader and the Ranking Member of the Committee, Alexander Afenyo-Markin.

Alexaander Afenyo-Markin, MP, Effutu: Good afternoon, Senior.

Muntaka: Good afternoon, Minority Leader.

Afenyo-Markin: How old are you now?

Muntaka: Well, based on the extrapolation that was done to be able to get me my date of birth, it says I should be about 54 now.

Afenyo-Markin: So, based on your date of birth on page 1 of your CV, which states you were born October 17, 1971, you are 54 now.

Muntaka: I should be heading towards 54.

Afenyo-Markin: Very well. So, you are 53 now?

Muntaka: Yes, Minority Leader.

Afenyo-Markin: Senior, in 2009, how old were you? 2009 February, how old were you? Muntaka: Probably around 37.

Afenyo-Markin: So, you would agree with me that you had not reached that prime age of 40 as they say life begins at 40, correct?

Muntaka: Obviously.

Afenyo-Markin: Now, a lot of Ghanaian youth are watching you now.First, share with us useful public life lessons you learned between that age of 37 when you came into public life. And now that you are 53, back again into mainstream public life. And for the avoidance of doubt, the public life phrase as I have used now means getting into the executive arm of government.So, I’m defining my public life to mean the executive arm of government.

Muntaka: Well, thank you very much, Minority Leader. You are perfectly right.I mean, I want to believe that even when you yourself came to this house some 12, 13 years ago, you admit that I was, I think I was then the majority whip. I was more aggressive than today over the period. Well, as you age, you learn.You learn from your mistakes. You learn from the mistakes of others.

You read more widely.You experience so many other things. So, you learn so much. And the tendency for you to think and review and probably even share with others before you act is much better when you are older than when you are younger.Also, let me also say that in 2009, I just finished my first term. I started my second term. And frankly speaking, I had never worked with even any government sector.

I mean, I was the type, one of the competitors who never wanted to work for anybody. I wanted to work for myself. So, the closest I did was to work in the private sector.And you know, in the private sector, the attitude, the way of doing things are completely different from the public sector, where in the public sector, age is matter, seniority matter, all those things matter, and what have you, and what have you. And the buck sometimes does not necessarily end with you.

I mean, you could be the minister, but the back may not necessarily end with you.Today, I’ve been in the system for long. I’ve learned, I mean, you will admit, I’ve been even in the Pan-African Parliament alone. I’ve been there for over a decade, travelled across the world, the continent.

You see so much that makes you act differently from when you were much younger, that you didn’t have the kind of experience that you have when you are in your 50s. So definitely, there’s a huge difference between my good self. I can tell myself that sometimes my children wonder and say, why are you tolerating this from this constituent? I say, don’t worry, the person is young.When he grows, he will understand. So yes, I’ve learned so much.

Afenyo-Markin: You were 37 when you entered into the executive arm of government?

Muntaka: Yes, honourable Minority Leader.

Afenyo-Markin: You had some issues with the civil service structure, and you are on record to have said that the chief directors cannot be trusted.

Muntaka: Obviously, that was then, despite of what I’m saying.

Afenyo-MArkin: I gave you the opportunity to do a general overview, to advise the youth, so that they pick something from this.Now I’m delving into the specifics.

Muntaka: That’s okay, sir.

Afenyo-Markin: Right.Some of the public utterances against the conduct of the chief directors. And you know, you have done a perfect explanation of your background, that you are coming from the private sector, and you saw things differently. So, it made you say certain things.Today, going back in there, confronted with similar attitude by the civil service, and bear in mind, no doubt, you are going to meet a bureaucracy of permanent government workers who can give you tough time. What would be your posture?

Muntaka: Well, Mr. Chair, I think since I sat here, I’ve consistently said that I’m joining a team. I want to believe that probably 2009, I went in thinking that I was the king.Today, I believe that I’m only joining a team. And I’ve drummed it again and again, since morning, that if I have to succeed, it is because this crop of expertise will have to come on board and let us work as a team. If we have to fail, we’ll fail together as a team.My attitude is completely different.

And by the gifts of God and with all humility, as you know, now I even teach leadership in UPSA. I teach masterclass in leadership.Obviously, you cannot be an effective leader if you think you know it all, or you see people as it is you, we, you and me. But if you see leadership as playing part of the relay to get us finish a race, and making everybody feel belonging, and everybody’s view matter, and everybody feels important, even the slowest, I mean, tortoise, will want to speed up to get us finish the race.

So that will be the attitude that I’ll be going in there, that look, we have to do this together.And I respect your expertise. What do you say? I have to be more listening than doing all the talking. I don’t have to act until I’m very sure that all of us, or at least majority of us in the team, believe that that is the best way to act.So, it’s no longer about me, as an individual, it should be about us. I think that would be the attitude I’ll be going in there with. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Afenyo-Markin: Honourable leader, you have used a word that, you have used a word, king. And you juxtapose it against your yesterday, Muntaka at 37, thought that leadership meant he being a king. Muntaka at 53, believes that leadership to him is being part of a team.In a recent interview with a Joy FM journalist, you had cause to critique the leadership of the speaker of the EighthParliament of Ghana. Do you still hold firm those views as contained in those criticisms of the EighthParliament speaker?

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Let me clarify this.I did not criticise the speaker. I criticised his style. And I believe that for a style, people have their varying views.I respect him. He’s mentored me. We agree more on so many other things, but we have areas where we disagree.Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Afenyo-Markin: Honourable nominee, so I’ll give you a bit of a background, by way of laying foundation, then I’ll mount my question on it, okay? You recall Donald Rumsfeld, a former Defence Secretary of the United States of America, during George Bush Senior. Very well. Some journalists were pestering him on some very important matters of state.They pushed him over and over again. I’ll try to paraphrase what he said, that there are known knowns and there are known unknowns and there are unknown knowns.

Keep that in mind.Foundation two. Some of your colleagues who I interacted with upon your nomination expressed joy upon the announcement because they say you are very hard working. But were quick to also say that when your back is against a wall, you can spill.Let me ask you, are you ready to enter your casket with some debts on you, even when you are innocent, to save the nation?

Muntaka: Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I will say that you are asking the Pope. I’ll just give one example to reiterate this.I believe Minority Leader that you knew how we elected Mr. Speaker into office. Everybody in this country had done everything humanly possible. I believe even including the security agencies, to know which of your guys supported us.And they don’t know.

Afenyo-Markin: We know.

Muntaka: You don’t know.It’s not true.

Afenyo-Markin: We know.

Muntaka: You don’t.

Afenyo-Markin: We know. Don’t go there. Honourable nominee, don’t go there.

Muntaka: I’m sorry.I’m sorry. I’m answering questions. You asked a question.I hope you let me answer.

Afenyo-Markin: Well, but because you’ve introduced us, we know.

Muntaka: You don’t.You can only guess. You cannot say you know.

Afenyo-Markin: But do you know?

Muntaka: I worked with people, and I vowed and told them that not even my wife would know this.I will die with it. And I meant it, and I will die with it. I am telling you that I’m going to this ministry that is security zone, an area where you talk less, you act more.I can assure you that, even I’m sure, Honourable Minority Leader, you and I, in the last few years that we’ve been in this house, not even a few, for over a decade.

Afenyo-Markin: You are inadvertently spilling.

Muntaka: No, I’m not spilling.I’m saying that over the period that you and I have been in this House, you can attest to the fact that there have been so many things between us that no third person has ever known. And I can assure you that no third person will ever know. Because you can trust me that when I say I am doing this with my honour, I meant I’m doing it on my honour.

But obviously, like you rightly said, when you push someone to the wall, I mean, it is said in the Akan, when you chase a coward to the wall, you see his braveness. Yes, all of us have our values. We have our principle.It gets to a point where if your core values are going to be compromised, you’d rather prefer to walk away. That is a natural thing.

But I can assure you that when it comes to, as people say, spilling the beans, I’ll be the last anybody can doubt whether I keep confidentiality.I can be angry and talk about it, but the details and specifics of things, you can never hear it from me. Yes, I’m human. I’m not an angel.I can have my weakness and strength. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Afenyo-Markin: Honourable nominee, let’s go back to your CV.Your residential address is provided thus, B60, Simpson Road, Borteyman?

Muntaka: Yes, Minority Leader. Yes, Chairman.

Afenyo-Markin: Borteyman, that area where you live, you acquired your lease from government?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: So, it was a state land that you rightfully bought?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: And you have a lease covering it between you and government of Ghana acting through the Lands Commission as your leasehold, and you being a lease?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin:You will also agree with me that you bought that land because that area was demarcated as a residential area?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: And that you bought it with equal rights as any other person, be it a Ghanaian or a foreigner, with the ability to pay?

Muntaka: Rightly so.

Afenyo-Markin: How would you feel if any Ghanaian suggests to you that by mere fact that that is a government land, you have taken advantage to acquire, therefore you are corrupt? Muntaka: Well, Mr. Chair, what I will say is that I know the whole of East Legon was for the state. There are private people living there, people who had worked in government before, and others.Airport residential was all state land. People acquired them legitimately, and they are living there. I don’t see anything wrong if it is done legitimately and rightly.

And I’ve heard my colleague, the Attorney General in answering the question. If the Land Commission says, they advertise, they say they are giving out this piece based on this procedure that is legitimate and you acquire, how can anybody say because of that you are corrupt? But obviously, as you may know, Chair, people have their own perceptions about things. I remember in 2013, when – no, in 2014, (audio cut)

Answer to next question: …I was just about two years.And since being in Kumasi to today, I was born and bred in Kumasi. My father has 41 of us. I’m number 14.And all of us were born – I think we were a social of two. Then my father said they were born in Salaga. All the others, 39 of us, born and bred in Kumasi.And it is Kumasi that all of us have ever known our assets, our larger family. Yes, we have the extended family. We visit, and we are proud of them.Some are in Salaga. Some of my sisters married, have taken them to Salaga. Some of my sisters are in Tamale.Ras Mubarak is my direct nephew.

His mother is my direct sister. She’s my father’s fifth born.But she married, took her back to Tamale. Some of my siblings are in Germany. Some are in London who are now British.Some are in America who are now Americans. So, I am born and bred in Kumasi, and I’m proud of that. And I see Kumasi as my hometown, and I will remain proud of being a Kumarican.Yes, and my cousin is Amin Adam. Until the funeral came, when his mommy died, and I went. Then I realised what the father said.What are you doing?

I said, I came to my friends. He said, no, he’s not your friend. And he started telling the relation.Then I looked at him, and I see one of my uncles. I see they have some resemblance. I said, oh, you see, we have an Imam in Ashanti region, the late regional Imam.He’s late now.

He has a slogan that he uses very frequently. Every time he preaches, just to remind us about the peace.He said, look, everybody is in everybody’s home. So be careful about what you do to each other. Because by the time you realise, you are related in one way or the other.So, it’s a very common slogan in our community, Zongo in Kumasi. Kowa nage dan kowa.

To it means, everybody is in everybody’s home.So be careful what you do to people. Because at least you wake up and realise that, oh, not doing that. The one that you are hurting is your direct brother or cousin or nephew or niece.Thank you, Chair.

Afenyo-Markin: So, in other words, you are telling me that should I take a secret ballot on you, my respected colleague, Dr. Amin Adam, is likely to defy my orders and vote for you because you are indeed his blood brother? (humour)

Muntaka: Mr. Chairman, I don’t think my …

Afenyo-Markin: It is not for you to answer.

Muntaka: Okay, thank you.

Chairman: Honourable members, Honourable Amin Adam is not even a member of this committee. So, he doesn’t even have a vote to cast.

Afenyo-Markin: Honourable nominee, you have indicated to us truthfully and in all sincerity that you’ve acquired a government land. You acquired it rightfully. And to the extent that you acquired it rightfully and you have your lease, there’s nothing wrong with it.May I know from you, still being honest with us, do you know some of your party members in leadership of your party who have acquired government lands in Cantonments, Roman Ridge, Ridge, Airport residential area? Do you know per chance?

Muntaka: Mr. Chairman, frankly speaking, I don’t go about asking people about their assets and this. Frankly speaking. So, if I visit, say, the chair of the committee who, I mean, we’ve been in this House and work together on so many things, and I say, oh, you have a nice house.How am I going to be asked, oh, how did you acquire this land? I just don’t know. I don’t know.Frankly speaking, I don’t know.

Afenyo-Markin: That’s okay. I mean, fair answer.I mean, somebody may not like you, but your sincerity would always precede you. And I put that out for public consumption with a little interaction I’ve had with you. Now, do you have some of your party members who live in the Roman Ridge area, Ridge, Cantonments, Airport residential area, since you visit them, some of your party leaders, colleagues in Parliament, colleague NDC members outside of Parliament, do you have some of them living in these areas? I don’t want you to mention names, but do you have some of them living in these areas?

Muntaka: Frankly speaking, Mr. Chair, I’ve been scanning my mind to see who did I know.The only person that I used to visit and play tennis with, he was then the minister, Honourable Mahama Ayariga, when he was around the Roman Ridge. And since we lost power, he left there. I don’t know, but I knew that probably he was there because he was a government official or minister, because I could see then HonourableKumbour was next to him.So, we go and play tennis together and do a lot of things together. In Roman Ridge, in Cantonment?

Afenyo-Markin: Let’s do Cantonment specifically, currently.

Muntaka: Frankly speaking, I’m scanning my mind to see whether I’ve visited any of my colleagues in these two areas. On my honour, no. I can’t recollect now whether I’ve visited anybody in that area. Unless if you see me around any of these areas with somebody, you can ask whether, when I visit, I ask him whether he owns a house or the land.

Afenyo-Markin: I’ve moved away from ownership. Honourable Leader, I intend to be very brief. Because you know we are ordinarily entitled to follow-ups. So, if you are brief, I will be brief.

Muntaka: Okay, I think that’s a good sign you’ve given me. And I will try to

Afenyo-Markin: And as you may be aware, your vetting today comes under a special dispensation.

Muntaka: I have no doubt about that. And I am grateful.

Afenyo-Markin: For the very security reasons, and it’s in the public interest that we take you today for the sake of our country. And as my respected colleague, Kennedy Agyapong and NAPO normally say, this is about systems and policies, not NDC, NPP. So, we are doing this for the country, and nothing NPP, NDC.I’m just limiting it to critical issues.

Muntaka: Sincerely grateful.

Afenyo-Markin: How close are you with Honourable Haruna Iddrisu?

Muntaka: I will say very close.

Afenyo-Markin: Do you visit him in his house sometimes?

Muntaka: Yes, around Bank Hospital.

Afenyo-Markin: That’s Cantonment.

Muntaka: Yes, I’ve visited him before.Sorry. That’s what I said. I was scanning my mind to see.

Afenyo-Markin: So, you know he lives at Cantonment?

Muntaka: Yes, I know.

Afenyo-Markin: Very well. That’s okay.Now let’s deal with the time you left the majority front bench. You recall that Mr. Speaker said this to you. I want to quote Mr. Speaker on the floor.He told you that when one door closes, many more are open. Do you recall this?

Muntaka: Yes, I do.

Afenyo-Markin: How good do you feel being an Interior minister today, having this statement of Speaker on the floor of the House in mind, especially when those were your very low moments?

Muntaka: Well, let me admit, even apart from what he said on the floor, I’m grateful to Mr. Speaker because we met in his chamber.He repeated the same and advised me, you are a member of the Pan-African Parliament. Look well. So, when he said that in Pan-African Parliament, not long before I became the chair of the Committee on Monetary and Finance, and that has opened so many other opportunities to the extent that, if you admit, most of the time I’m not seen on the floor because I was so busy with that. So yes, once that door closed, so many others opened, and I’m grateful for that advice.

Afenyo-Markin: Including this one?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: Okay.Were you expecting this? Yes, no

Muntaka: Well, I’m the one who lived by the day and put myself in my maker. So, I don’t wake up expecting things. I just say the will of Allah be.

Afenyo-Markin: In 2020, you made your six-year-old daughter vote, correct?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: Do you regret doing that openly?

Muntaka: No.I mean, my belief as a chair was that this was – I mean, I’m very fond of Khadija. She insisted she wanted to be here today. I said no.She should go to school. Very fond of her. I mean, you have so many children, but sometimes you’d be very fond of one.She said, Daddy, can I see how voting is done? So, I said, oh, don’t worry. When we get there, I will. So, I pulled her by my side to vote.Yes, I must admit, the votes are supposed to be secret.

Afenyo-Markin: So, in other words, you didn’t consider the legality or otherwise of your actions.

Muntaka: That’s the thing.

Afenyo-Markin: You did it out of love and passion for her.

Muntaka: Knowing that her seeing it and even using her hand to do it doesn’t really mean anything to her, apart from just having the feeling that, oh, I now know what they do.

Afenyo-Markin: I am letting you know that it was wrong in law.

Muntaka: Later, when it came out, I said, oh, yeah, it’s true, because one is supposed to be secret.

Afenyo-Markin: Did you get the opportunity to apologise to Ghanaians?

Muntaka: I did.

Afenyo-Markin: Very well. Honourable Muntaka, in 2009, when you were a young person in government, you encountered some controversies. What controversies ended up at CHRAJ and you were cleared. This committee will be happy to have the report of CHRAJ. That is, if you procured a copy for yourself. I say so because as public servants of the political class, our being there is driven by perception. It is therefore important that when a litigation has come to an end, we let the same public know the status of it.If you don’t mind, and if you have it, would you want to share that report that cleared you of any wrongdoing?

Muntaka: Mr. Chair, because I relocated from our cemetery to my new place, because of how we receive documents in Parliament, I moved most of the documents to the library in my community. In fact, they are still in sacks. I’ll make aefforts to see if I can get it.I’ll let you have it.

Afenyo-Markin: Fair enough. My very last question, so you can go to the mosque.You’ve assured the country today that you are a moderate politician, correct?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: You’ve also assured the nation today that your tenure will not tolerate partisan violence, correct?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: You are also telling Ghanaians that you don’t subscribe to all the post-election violence we are having in the country, correct?

Muntaka: I condemn it, yes.

Afenyo-Markin: You also assure the nation, particularly the investor community, that you will do all you can to protect their investment in Ghana.

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: You also verily assure all Ghanaians, especially your political adversaries, to be specific, the NPP members who are in opposition, that your office will not tolerate political vendetta.

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: On oath, you have said that you will lead your ministry to introduce reforms at our various security agencies. You’re still committed to that, which you said on oath?

Muntaka: Yes.

Afenyo-Markin: Now, to end it all, you have praised the security agencies, particularly the police. And let me say that the Inspector General of Police, Dr. Akuffo-Dampare, many may have their own views about him, but I am one person who respects him, admires him, and believes that if we have his type consistently manning our police service, Ghana will be a better place.

There may be some disagreement about his style, but I personally believe that what he has done for the nation in terms of security is one that we must all celebrate.What would be your own advice to anybody who suggests that, because he was an appointee of Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo, and he’s not 60 yet, an energetic, competent IGP should be removed by virtue of changing power? What would be your advice?

Muntaka: Well, I can assure you that when, by the grace of God, this house approves of my nomination and I join the team, definitely there will be assessment of all the team members. You know His Excellency President Mahama has a vision and objective for which Ghanaians have voted for him. All that will be reviewed in line.

And those that in the views of His Excellency President Mahama will be helpful in assisting him to achieve that objective. You can be reassured, especially in the national interest, I will support it. But I will not be able to deal with specific individuals to give assurance that, oh, after this person, he will go.After this person, he will stay. In fact, me, myself, I do not have that power. Even as Minister for Interior, I do not have that power.

I can only make a recommendation about one individual or the other to His Excellency the President. And that decision is that of the President, which all of us are serving at his mercy. So, I will not be able to give any definite answer.But I can assure you, I believe, since I was nominated, interacting with them, I can see that they are breaking their back to keep us safe.

They need to be encouraged; we need to support the system so that the system will continue to improve and be able to protect all of us. That’s assurance you can get from me. But as to who will go, who will stay, I do not have that power. The best or the worst I can do is to recommend to His Excellency and that is for him. Thank you.

Afenyo-Markin: Honourable nominee, indulge me. I’ve sought the leave of my respected chairman to do this one more exercise and bear with me. You know how this our enterprise is.I take you back to 2016. In 2016, November, December, thereabout, President Mahama’s government granted some approvals for what they call clearance, we hear clearance, for some public institutions to recruit.

I will zone on the security services, particularly police, immigration, fire, and prisons.This recruitment began around November and into December, after even the elections. These young men and women entered the training schools, even whilst we were celebrating. And in March of 2017, Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo went to Fosu, the Immigration Training School there, and officiated the passing out ceremony of those recruitments that took place in December.I want to ask you, there is general apprehension in town.

There were Ghanaians who were recruited and are training. If you go to police training school at Tesano, there are Ghanaians, male, female, training.If you go to Fosu, if you go to Tafo, immigration, there are Ghanaian youth training, fire training schools, all over. They are training. In fact, since I became a member of parliament in 2013, I have benefited from ministers of interior coming to support MPs that bring your constituents to allow balance.

When I was in opposition, when you were in opposition, they gave you some. All MPs, they pass it through our leaders. So, on authority, I know that those Ghanaian youths who are training are not NPP so-called, but they are Ghanaians who, they are MPs.From 2017 all the way to 2024, when elections were being held, NDC MPs got protocols for recruitment. NPP MPs got protocols for recruitment.Some. That’s correct.

That’s a good qualifier.Some. That’s correct. Ghanaian youth who bought forms had the opportunity.Would you ensure that Ghanaians who are currently in training will conduct their training peacefully and upon completing their training, you as minister or anybody authorised by you will officiate their passing our ceremony? Honourable nominee, please. I’m done. Thank you.

Muntaka: Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I think facts are always available to check. What I have said and I’m repeating is that I, Muntaka Mohammed Mubarak, I will act in the best national interest. That’s I will say on this. I’ll act in the best national interest. That’s all I’ll say.

Afenyo-Markin: Honourable nominee, thank you very much. I wish you all the best. You will hear from us.And that’s a very mature response and I think I’m satisfied. Thank you.

Chairman: Thank you very much. Honourable members, may I humbly

Rockson-Nelson Dafeamekpor: Chairman, chairman

Chairman: Honourable Rockson Dafeamekpor, you do not have the floor. I do not intend to engage in this with you. I least expected you to do this. You do not have the floor.

Rockson-Nelson Dafeamekpor: Chairman

Chairman: Wait for me to give you the floor. Honourable members. I recognise the presence.

Rockson-Nelson Dafeamekpor: Chairman, with all due respect, the ranking member has just said that between 2017 and 2024, every NDC member got protocol. I never got. Please.He said every NDC member of parliament. So please, please.

Chairman: Honourable members. Honourable Dafeamekpor, take it easy. He qualified it by saying some. I’ve been a member of parliament for a long time and I know as a member of parliament, our constituents will come to us with enlistment form and we beg on behalf of our constituents to be enlisted. When you go to beg and you happen to get it, fine.If you don’t happen to get it, fine.

But I don’t have a situation where they will say that automatically as a member of parliament, you are entitled to bring this number of people to be enlisted into the police service. So, with all due respect, let’s handle this with some utmost this thing. Honourable members, I have the pleasure to congratulate the nominee and to say that you’ve been here on time. Questions were posed to you very composed, intelligent manner.You provided answers to the questions. Once again, congratulations. You surely hear from the committee and you are hereby discharged.

Muntaka: Thank you very much chair, I’m grateful.