Patricia Appiahagyei: Thank you very much. Honourable member, with the growing population of young people entering the workforce each year, what is your plan to address youth unemployment? And may I continue by asking if you could outline any specific programmes to support entrepreneurship skills training or expansion of industries that have high job creation potential? Thank you.
Dr. Forson: Thank you.Mr Chairman, as a government, our job creation measures have been announced as part of our manifesto. As a minister, my responsibility is to mobilise the needed resources. In consultation with cabinet, I will have to allocate them effectively to the sectors that will create employment, and for them to be able to create jobs.
When we talk about jobs, Mr Chairman, and what you said, we’ve announced our 24-hour economy, and I strongly believe that Ghana has the huge potential of increasing our GDP with the same resources and the same human resource. That in itself will create enough jobs, jobs that will be able to cater for our team in need. In the meantime, what you said about skill training and all, His Excellency the President, President Mahama, and the manifesto of the NDC has not minced words on this.
We are going to set up a structure to train skills, give them access to the required training, and give them the tools for them to be able to learn the trade. I’ll fund it, as a minister, if approved, or when approved, in such a way that the skills that we lack as a country, we can train them locally and give them employment. Today, most of us, any time you want to get good artisans, you go to our neighbouring countries and bring them in.
But we have the youth here. Why don’t we give them the training? I think we need to revisit that. I’ll work with the sector ministers and be able to allocate the needed resources to them. As I’ve said, that is my role as a minister responsible for finance. So, we’ll locate the revenue, the resources to them, for them to be able to. Then I’ll mobilise the resources and be able to allocate them effectively and efficiently.
Chairman: Thank you very much. Any further questions?
Patricia Appiahagyei: Yes, I’m very much interested in your answer to my last question. But I’m looking at the development of women, and I’m highly interested in your manifesto promise to set up a women development bank, then free tertiary education. I know all these things are going to be of prime benefit for our ladies or our women in the country. With the proposed reduction in taxes, is fiscal consolidation a priority for the government? In the near term, taking into account the government’s manifesto? Thank you.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Chairman. Fiscal consolidation is not only a priority, but we will front load it. We will front load it carefully. At the same time, we’ll signal to the investor community strongly that fiscal consolidation is not only a priority, but we’ll front load it in a way. At the same time, not ignoring the impact on growth and protecting the vulnerable.
So that, I can assure you, it is a priority. We have an option to rationalise some of these expenditures, and so it’s a matter of switching and rationalising. So, it doesn’t mean that the flagship we’ve announced as part of our manifesto does not mean we are going to increase our expenditure. That is not what it means. It’s a priority of government, and we’ll do just that.
Chairman: Thank you for your answer. Any more questions?
Patricia Appiahagyei: Yes, I will have my last follow-up question to the statement made, or the question put in by Dr. Boako. Honourable, you agree that data for end of year usually is validated on the first quarter of the ensuing year. So, all data presented during the budget reading in November are provisional. How then do you say that data presented in 2017 and 2018, knowing that they are provisional, you term it as inaccurate? Thank you.
Dr. Forson: Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, the Honourable Gideon Boako made reference to a particular data point and said that I was inaccurate. I said this in 2019, and I said it at a time that the government had published accurate data. I said it at a time that the IMF, at a time, and remember Ghana was in an IMF programme, had gone to their board to present to their board end year final numbers. Mr. Chairman, I did not lie.
I said what I believe was the fact. In fact, subsequent data from the Ministry of Finance has confirmed that I was overly generous, and that the fiscal data was even below what I had announced. I had announced 7.8 and that they had revised it downwards to 7.3. Mr. Chairman, I did not receive, I did not cook this number.
This was given to me by the Ministry of Finance this morning, and so this is what I mean. Data obviously is maybe preliminary until finally determined at the end of the year, and that’s why I’ve been careful not to announce any end year numbers, but that is what it is. You know in Parliament you have to debate. You have to debate certain data, and we debated that.
Emmanuel Armah Kofi Buah, MP, Ellembelle: Congratulations, Honourable Cassiel Ato Forson. I entered Parliament with you in 2009.I know that we were about 42 on our side, and then the other side also had a number. We are only four left. That speaks volumes about the attrition of Parliament, but I am very, very, very proud of you. So, if I say I know you very well, I know you very well.
You are a man of complete integrity, and you speak with data and facts, and I am very, very confident that that’s exactly what you do. I’m very proud of your performance today, and I think you’ve calmed the nerves of the people of Ghana and given them the assurance that you are going to really lead, quite frankly, the finance ministry to success. So, my respected leader, I must also congratulate you on behalf of our colleagues.
You, as minority leader, will be remembered as the leader that in the last two years led the minority from 137 to 188 seats. Congratulations. So, I’ll go straight to my question. Ghana’s economy, Honourable, is grappling with serious challenges. I think you talked a lot about them, the GDP issues, inflation, and high unemployment. And so, my question is, as the Minister of Finance, what will be your top priorities to address these challenges?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Let me also thank His Excellency the President for the honour that me and my party, the NDC, again for giving me such an opportunity to serve Ghana in such a high position, in a position of trust.
I come to this position very well prepared. I have 16 years’ experience in public service, after some years in the private sector. In politics, you are aware that I’ve served one as a deputy minister of finance, and on the other side, when my party went forward.
And I urge my colleagues also to do the same. I will do whatever it takes to move this economy from the crisis that we are in today, to where we have to be. My priority as a Minister will be low prices, stable city, and jobs. Low prices in the sense that today inflation is 28.3%, food inflation is 27.8%, and we know inflation we see today is largely driven with food inflation. What do we do?
As Minister, I will allocate resources in consultation with cabinet to government policy of agriculture for economic transformation to make food cheaper. And we work with the Minister responsible for agric to make food cheaper. That in itself will help make food available and protect food security. On the price side, we can’t talk about price without inflation.
I mean, inflation needs to be tamed. It has been stubborn. I’ve said it earlier. In the last eight months, you can see that we are still seeing some uptick, even though not too steep. But it has been 23.8. Today, that’s the inflation rate. What do we do together to reduce this inflation? Yes, I’ve said it here, and I want to say it again.
We will work with the Bank of Ghana to reduce inflation to 8% plus or minus 2% in the shortest possible time. And how do we do this? From the fiscal side, we will front load fiscal consolidation in the shortest possible time, so that we can get inflation down. And in doing so, we’ll see prices stabilising.
The cedi needs to be anchored and has to be anchored from the Ministry of Finance in the Bank of Ghana. You can’t leave the Bank of Ghana alone to anchor the cedi. The fiscal authorities have a role to play. I’ll work with them. I will work and coordinate effectively with the central bank, the monetary authorities, so that together we can anchor the currency.
Monetary financing must be eliminated, and we’ll work to eliminate it. I’m on record to have spoken against monetary financing. My position has not changed. It’s economics, and it still remains economics.
And I will do exactly what it takes to make sure we anchor the currency. On jobs, I’ve said it all. I’ve said it here that my responsibility as a minister responsible for finance is to raise the required revenue and to allocate it in consultation with cabinet to sectors that will create the jobs.
And so, we will do just that, and I want to repeat that. These are my priorities as a minister, and we’ll work to achieve that in the shortest possible time. I want to be remembered as the one who helped to reduce prices and stabilise the currency and create the jobs. That is what I ask God to help me to achieve. Thank you.
Emmanuel Buah: Thank you. So, you talked a lot about the costofliving crisis, food inflation. Obviously, you can only do this with other sectors, other ministries, to address these what we call the inefficiencies in the agricultural value chain.Can you allow some of the strategies that we will do, working with other structures to address these inefficiencies in the agricultural value chain?
Dr. Forson: My passion is agribusiness, and that’s why I’m sure you’ve seen questions coming from Coco, left, right, and centre. Why is it that food inflation is 27.8? I think it speaks volumes. It speaks volumes. And what are the staples? Why are we not taking a hard decision to invest in the agriculture centre?
I think the time has come for us to pay attention to agriculture sector. I will wait for the nomination of the minister responsible for agriculture and his subsequent approval. I hope to work with the minister concerned, and we’ll work together to implement the government policy to make food cheaper.
We have to mechanise agriculture. We have to improve and enhance productivity, and we have to modernise the agri-sector and make it encouraging for young people to enter the sector. And in the process, you cannot ignore agribusiness. As I’ve said, that’s my passion, and I intend to work with the minister responsible for agriculture to ensure food security and make it cheaper.
Emmanuel Buah: Honourable minister, I wish you all the best.
Chairman: Thank you very much. I may allow questions from the ranking member and minority leader. Honourable leader, your turn.
Afenyo-Markin: Thank you. I will spare you the eii Ato for today. Leader, this is not a question, and this is not a foundation I’m laying on any matter. It’s just a comment, not for you, but for the many young politicians who have just arrived. On the day of the inauguration seated by you, you made a comment to the effect that some 16 years ago, you were a young legislator, and you were at the backbench. And today, it’s your turn to serve your country. You urged upon me that we should do all we can to make Ghana proud as we get opportunity.
So, I want those who have just joined public service in the political class to take inspiration from this. Patience and industry are a rule, and do your best. And when it gets your turn, you’ll be honoured. Don’t punch above your weight, else you get crushed. Having said this, I shall proceed with some few questions. In your earlier submission, you have said that you will not hurt the vulnerable.
And if I quote you further, you also said that I am from a rural constituency, therefore I would champion policies that would benefit the poor. Currently, we have some social intervention programmes rolling. One, free SHS; boarding, free, tuition, free, feeding, free. Would you sustain the free SHS programme in its current form and shape, and even improve upon the quality?
Chairman: Thank you very much, nominee, your answer to the question, whether you will sustain and improve upon the free SHS programme.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Myself and the minority leader have a history. We plan to enter this chamber together. Unfortunately, in his first attempt, he couldn’t make it, and I made it. Mr. Chairman, he lost that primary, and I won.
And today, I’m one term older than him. Mr. Chairman, I’m his senior. He’s older than me, just four months, same year. We are two constituencies apart. We used to do private sector business even before we all entered here, and we’ve known ourselves growing up. Everyone knows the relationship between us, but working with him didn’t stop me from doing my work, and it didn’t stop him from also doing his work.
And so, to add to colleagues, we may have relationships, but it should not stop you from doing your work. It should work for God and country, and we have to do it with the best of intention to help our country grow. We did just that. We’ve had a moment. We fought. We united ourselves. Today, the tables have turned. He’s now the minority leader. Kwamina, learn from me and be good.
Afenyo-Markin: That’s a good one. Good. (all laugh)
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I want to say this. My party’s position on free senior high school has been well articulated by His Excellency the President. We do not intend to cancel the free SHS. In fact, President Mahama has said that the free SHS has come to stay.
I don’t think you need any further assurance. The President of the Republic of Ghana has made the statement, who am I, as a minister, that he has appointed. So, you have the assurance from the highest level of government to preserve the policy. I don’t think I have what it takes to give you additional assurance. It’s done. And he’ll be coming to this house as part of his State of the Nation address.
I’m sure he’ll re-echo that position. I’m only a servant. My responsibility, if approved, will be to allocate resources to his priorities or to the priorities of the government. And I’ll do that. So, my brother and my friend, be assured that free SHS has come to stay. And if there’s anything, we’ll come to this house for us to work together.
But the President has said it. The budget will be presented to this house for us to peruse, consider it, and approve it. So, let’s not jump the gun. But I’m sure you are very much aware of what His Excellency, his pronouncement in the last few years.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, I would like to know from our leader, as the holder of the purse, whether the school feeding programme will be sustained?
Dr. Forson: Chairman, I said earlier that I come from a rural constituency. And I know the impact of the school feeding programme. My concern is that the amount you give today, per child, as the cost you pay to the caterer, is not enough to pay to feed the child well. In fact, it is not enough even to buy egg. That’s what it is. It’s not enough to buy egg. And so, we will not only sustain it, but we’ll make it better. We’ll make it better.
Because as I’ve said, our policies will be designed in such a way that those strong will preserve growth and protect the vulnerable. The vulnerable is what we are talking about. Remember, the school feeding is not in Achimota. It’s not in Achimota school. It’s somewhere in the village. And for them, this one square meal or twice is enough.
Afenyo-Markin: So, Chairman, just for clarity and for the records, the caterers out there listening to you should take it that the current amount being paid to them is going to increase once you take over. With that assurance, what percentage should they expect? 20 percent? 30 percent? 40 percent? 50 percent?
Because you say that the amount being paid is woefully inadequate. You didn’t just say inadequate, you said woefully inadequate. So please let the caterers know as the holder of the purse, the percentage you are going to increase their costs. Dr. Forson: Chairman, the minority leader is putting words in my mouth.
Chairman: Yes, but before you provide your answer, can you state how much is it now?
Dr. Forson: Well, Mr. Chairman, I never said we are going to increase it. I never used that word. I said that we will sustain it and improve on it. I made reference to the amount we paid and said it’s not enough because I’ve heard the caterers complain.
So, Chairman, this is a house of records. Whatever we say here goes into the handsard. I never said that. Mr. Chairman, you don’t just increase, you need to engage the sector. So, it will be difficult for me to sit here and just announce. I don’t work like that. I don’t work like that. I’m a careful person. So, I cannot announce things that I don’t know.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, the honourable nominee said that he’s aware that the caterers have been complaining. That is a fact that is coming from him. Two, he says that they are not being paid enough, considering even the cost of an egg. He referred to that. And he’s going to improve upon it. Now, what is the definition of improvement? This is a matter of cost. If you say the amount is not enough, even the cost of an egg and looking at how much they are being paid.
So obviously, you are suggesting to them that you are going to increase the amount they are being paid. And if you cannot give us a percentage, that’s fine. I won’t push you. But I want you to be on record that upon assumption of office, the caterers should expect an increase in the amount being paid as compared to the current payment they are receiving.Just for the record.
Chairman: Honourable member, I think from your answer, the indication is clear. That the amount is woefully inadequate and it will be improved. He attests to the fact that sitting there, you will not be able to indicate the percentage improvement. So, the answer is already there.
Dr. Forson: Chairman: I just want to also add that we have to first pay the caterers. Because I know not long ago, last week, they were pivoting and demanding their payment. And so, the first attention is to make sure you pay them, the caterers, because some of them had to borrow before they engage in such a business.
So, let’s pay them first. Let’s settle them. I don’t know the quantum of arrears. We need to know the arrears; the amount of money the government of Ghana owes these caterers. We ascertain it, pay them, make them happy, and then we’ll move on.
Afenyo-Markin: Mr. Chair, as for this, I know it as a fact. So, I will give a voluntary answer.Honourable leader and my respected colleague, government paid all caterers, and I want you to quote me, the last term, it’s only this term, this term which has just begun, that government owes, because the term would have to end. But I want you to know that I am aware that government paid all outstandings to caterers.
The NPP government, at the time of leaving office, had paid every single caterer, every single caterer was paid. There is no outstanding, and that it is this current term which has just begun, that upon completion, they will send their invoices for validation. So just for the record, and I pray that with assurance that there’s going to be improvement in the amount being paid, you are saying that you won’t use the word increase, but you will use the word improvement.Well, it means the same.
You are now the man in charge of the purse and you know the pressure on cocoa farmers. The GH¢6,000 per bag that you committed, would it be your benchmark in your advocacy and eventual decision for the cocoa farmer because they are listening?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, cocoa money has not come to you in the past under the consolidated fund. Cocoa money is outside the consolidated fund. It stays with the Ghana Cocoa Board. Ghana Cocoa Board uses part of this money to buy cocoa, part to buy fertilisers and other inputs.
I don’t know what cocoa board is leaving behind. I don’t know the extent of arrears they are leaving behind. I don’t know the extent of debt that Ghana Cocoa Board is leaving behind. I will not do this committee any good if I sit here and announce cocoa prices. But as I’ve said, I remain a key advocate for the cocoa farmer. I will do so with the best of intention for the cocoa farmer.
I recognise their sacrifices. I’ve spoke for them in the last eight years and I will continue to speak for the cocoa farmer. That I can assure you. But let’s get to the cocoa board first and see what they have to do. I still maintain that the price they are paying the cocoa farmer is inadequate. I maintain that it’s inadequate. And there is more room for improvement. Thank you.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, is the nominee, conceding that the GH¢6,000 per bag he quoted on the floor of the House was a mere political statement?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, the GH¢6,000 per bag should have been paid in the last couple of years. Mr. Chairman, I say this because cocoa board is gradually turning themselves into a procurement agent just to procure inputs and denying the cocoa farmer.
So, they could have adjusted their formula to benefit the cocoa farmer. Very soon, the minister responsible for agric will be in place. I commit to work with him to give the cocoa farmer a fair price. And I believe the cocoa farmer deserves a fair price.
And I know His Excellency the former president quoted me previously that I had said the cocoa farmer deserves GH¢6,100. I’m not running away from that fact. I said it on the floor and I backed it with the world market price in the cedi at the time. I still maintain that the cocoa farmer deserves GH¢6,100. I’ve not run away from that position. Thank you.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, the nominee is being vetted as Minister of Finance. I want to ask him whether economic planning will be part of his responsibilities. Thank you very much.
Dr. Forson: Though the instrument is very clear, I will proceed to answer the question. Mr. Chairman, the instrument said Minister of Finance. We are aware that the National Development Planning Commission deals with economic planning but they interface with the Minister of Finance. Fiscal policy in itself includes economic planning. And so, there’s an interface and coordination between the Minister of Finance and the National Development Planning Commission. We accordingly do so.
Afenyo-Markin: Thank you very much. Honourable nominee, we assume without any doubt that the President has serious confidence in you, your capacity to help finance his flagship projects, and obviously values your insights and contributions in crafting policy.May you share with us if there is any planning and modelling to guide the development of the 24-hour economy policy?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, His Excellency the President has appointed the Honourable Bibi Kanda as the Special Advisor for the 24-hour economy. His office, prior to his nomination, have worked extensively on a policy, a 24-hour economic policy. In the coming days, we will make those policies public. Working with the Ministry of Finance, when I am approved, we will work with them to implement the 24-hour economy.
But as I have said earlier, I strongly believe that we can increase our GDP, or double our GDP, with the same capital, the same resources, and the same labour. I think it is up to us to work closely with the office of the Special Advisor to the President of the 24-hour economy and this House, so that together we can tweak it. Look, let me say that. If Ghana succeeds, we all succeed. And so, we have to work together.
I don’t have the full details of the work they have done. And as I said, the work didn’t just start. They have been working in the last two years to develop a programme towards this 24-hour economy agenda. No wonder the Honourable Goosie Tanoh was nominated to lead it, because he has been leading it since the opposition. Thank you.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, so just for the ordinary Ghanian, what is a 24-hour economy? Just for the ordinary Ghanian to understand.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, simply put, the 24-hour economy is an economy where the real sectors of the economy don’t sleep. The real sectors of the economy don’t sleep. For example, we have a mining sector, don’t we? We want to see where the mining sector does not sleep. That’s against a situation where the mining sector, for example, does 12 hours of going to bed.
With the benefits of light and electricity, they should be able to work 24 hours. And many other sectors. You have the hydrocarbon sector. You have the entire agricultural value chain. It’s not just going to farm. But after farm, the produce must go to a warehouse. And you have to, obviously, process it into agribusiness.
And so, we don’t want the value chain to go to sleep. We believe that if implemented properly, we’ll be able to increase the workforce. And we’ve said one job, just like we have now, can end up employing 3. So, 24-hour economy is a structure where we’ll end up implementing a trade shift for the economy going forward, bring out the productivity. Thank you very much.
Afenyo-Markin: Honourable nominee, are you suggesting, therefore, that the structure of our economy as it stands now has no such input as 24-hour economy already existing?
Dr. Forson: There are some semblances of 24-hour economy. Mr. Chairman, I think if you talk about the real sector, no. You see, the real sector, they are the core sectors of the economy that drives inclusive growth, proper growth, and create jobs.
You have health, where hospitals operate 24 hours. You have the police, some police stations, I mean, work 24 hours and all, some restaurants and all. But that’s not what we are talking about. That’s not what we are talking about.
We are talking of the real sector, where jobs are created. For example, we have Takoradi Port, my birthplace, where I grew up. Takoradi Port. And you have mines, where you used to work, the Awaso area, I mean, going all the way to Nyinahini mines.
With a proper railway line, you can get the Nyinahini mines to produce bauxite within the same 24 hours. What has been produced, you can haul it to Takoradi Port and ship them or process it. The whole process is what we are talking about, 24-hour economy.
So, it’s the real sector that we are talking about. Investment in the real sector, deliberate government policy, targeting the real sector, where you can use the 24-hour economic policy to drive growth. That’s what we are talking about, not the chop bars. We are not talking of chop bars. We are not talking of pharmacy shops. That’s not what we are talking about, real sector growth.
Afenyo-Markin: So, are you therefore saying that you’ve done some costing, and having done some costing, you have an approach in terms of this model? Because from your answer, you are suggesting that you are going to target certain sectors. And if you are targeting these sectors, and you really want to fuel economic growth, it means that you need to inject some funding. So let us know what funding arrangement you have in place to back this policy.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I don’t want to jump the gun. I said earlier that the Office of the Special Advisor to the President, responsible for 24-hour economy, is doing some work. I know they are almost done, and because the work started two years ago when we were in opposition, today he is in office, he will need to tweak it and present it to Parliament.
Obviously, what will be presented to Parliament will come from either the Ministry of Finance, together with the Ministry of Trade. So, let’s wait for that. The President has appointed someone responsible for the 24-hour economy. Let’s wait for the President to provide us a proper blueprint then we talk about it. Thank you.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, we have a 10 billion public infrastructure investment plan proposed by the NDC. At the same time, the NDC in government seeks to introduce the sinking fund and cap government borrowing. This is a manifesto promise. First, I want to know whether you pledge your support for this manifesto promise. And if so, walk us through the numbers. Demonstrate how it fits into the IMF framework for 2025-2028.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I subscribe to the tenets of our manifesto because I was part in formulating that manifesto. Mr. Chairman, yes, we promise to set up a sinking fund. It’s necessary. It is required. If we had a sinking fund today, I wouldn’t be sitting here lamenting that there are debts that will fall due yet we do not have buffers. We need to establish that sinking fund. We’ve done it in the past, and we’ll do it again.
I’ve said that it is only right for you to save during good times to take up bad times. So, we’ll save when it’s good, and when it’s bad, we’ll have buffers to be able to deal with the challenges. There is a need for us to cap borrowing. We have to cap borrowing. You can’t borrow into an unsustainable pit. We’ve seen it in the past. Can we continue the same way? Can we continue giving bondholders haircuts?
No. You know the consequences of the haircuts that we went through. The banking sector today is limping, and we’ll have to borrow to support the banking sector as a result of the haircuts that the country went through, and many others. Pensioners have to suffer. Individual bondholders have to lose their capital, some their medication and all. We need to cap the borrowing.
We need to have a plan to cap those borrowings, and so we commit to that. Aside from what you’ve mentioned, the 10 billion big push policy, the economy must grow, in spite of all of this. Ghana’s economy must grow. 10 billion over four years gives you 2.5 billion. The outgoing government, the immediate past government, what do you call it, Agenda 111, has left behind 1.5 billion for us to complete Agenda 111.
We know all of that. But I can assure you, in spite of the challenges, we have to carefully invest in the real sector. And you know my biases already. Hydrocarbons, mining, infrastructure, agri-business, and SMEs. We need to finance these sectors, and the real sector development is key. So, 10 billion US dollars, we can fund it over the medium term, over a four-year period.
And I’ve said here, the quality of expenditure matters. You have a choice to take 58 million US dollars to build National Cathedral. In the same vein, you have a choice to use four times that amount to be able to construct a proper highway between Accra and Kumasi. What would that do for you? To increase productivity. So, it’s a matter of the quality of expenditure. We will do it. And we have to do it to move this country forward. Thank you very much.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, I learned something from Dr. Forson. I’m not an economist. Mine is law. But we are learning. He once said there’s a difference between releases and payments. So, government will release to controller and then controller would have to effect the payment. So, you can talk about actual payment when you are in receipt of your payment. Is that correct? Very well. So, I would want to use that to clarify an earlier point that I made. From the school feeding secretariat.
That government released the entire 72 days old, to controller. And the actual payment received out of those release letters. The letter that goes to controller. Payments received by them was for 42 days. And that the 32 days outstanding is yet to be received by the caterers. So, I just wanted that on record. And that becomes your first responsibility. To ensure that the controller complies with the releases. Are you ready to ensure that the controller complies with the releases?
Chairman: Before coming to answer the question, I thought you said they are fully paid. But now that you are admitting that payment has not been paid and they are agitating.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, with respect, we are politicians and I understand languages when they are coded to mean something. I’ve been in this business with you. So, wait. I’ve noted that since it got to my turn, all my questions you find a way of repeating. We’ve been doing this. I was playing number 6 when I was on government side. So, I understand the game you want to play. But wait.
Chairman: Which number am I playing?
Afenyo-Markin: I don’t know.But it’s for you to determine the number you are playing. But let’s get back. We all learn. And when you learn, you don’t have to be worried about mistakes. So, you learn. I’m saying that government released all our standards. And through the warrant that government communicated to the controller, it was for the full amount owed the caterers, the 72 days.
So, government of Nana Addo Dankwa Akufo-Addo, at the time of leaving office released the entire outstanding to be paid. Now the records have it that as of 31st of December 2024, the controller had only paid 42 days out of what he was directed to pay.And that we have some days outstanding in releases yet to be paid. Do we have your commitment to ensure that the controller complies with this?
Dr. Forson: Chairman, I keep guiding the committee that let’s be careful not to speculate. Because we don’t have the full picture yet. You may think it’s 30 something days left, but you’ll end up seeing worse. So, I urge that let’s take our time, get to the ministry, do a proper assessment as to the arrears due, and have a plan to repay.
Mr. Chairman, today the government pays GH¢1.50p for a child to be fed. GH¢1.50p. Okay. And I’ve said that it is not enough even to buy egg. I’ve also said that there are some arrears we need to pay. Let’s get to the ministry. When we get there, we’ll work to make sure these caterers are paid first. And then we can look into the future, what we can do for the school feeding. Thank you very much.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, now back to the issue of your 10 billion public infrastructure investment fund.I want to know from you, Honourable Nominee, how much of the 10 billion shall be raised in each year? And how will that fit under the debt ceiling in your manifesto, because you are proposing a certain debt ceiling. You are also talking about raising this 10 billion. I want to know how you intend to go about it, and how much of same each year? Thank you.
Dr. Forson: Chairman, the policy will be submitted to Parliament for approval. The big push policy will be submitted to Parliament for approval. In it, we’ll give you the breakdown. How we are going to raise money, when we are going to start, and how much goes into each year. So, the details will be provided to this House.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, the nominee has two major interventions to make to meet a policy initiative of the government. And because you hold the purse, it will squarely come to you.One, the free university tuition for first year. Second, the extra costs to be incurred under free SHS to cover private schools. So, these are two main expenditure lines to look out for. So let me start with the first one.
With the free university tuition for first years, I understand the university students are starting their semester one. Now, are you going to implement it now, the free first year tuition for university students? Are you going to implement it this academic year, which has just begun? And would you factor it in your budget, which you are going to present?
Dr. Forson: First, I’m not yet the Minister of Finance. Second, Mr. Chairman, I have to be at the Ministry to assess the situation and introduce government policies accordingly. My responsibility as Minister of Finance will include mobilising domestic revenue to fund government projects or government flagships.
I will do that, not alone, by working with the Cabinet. I’m mindful of our manifesto promises, and I should be the one to be able to recommend same to government if we can afford it. And as long as it’s in government manifesto and there are timelines to it, I commit to it. I commit to it, and we’ll do just that. But let me get to the Ministry first, and let’s see what we can do.
Afenyo-Markin: So, Honourable nominee, are you suggesting that you have not considered the costing of this policy, the free tuition for first year university students?
Dr. Forson: Chairman, that is very wrong. I’ve never said that. It doesn’t matter the costing. It must fit into a framework. And I have to get into the Ministry first. I can’t pretend to use this podium to read the national budget. It’s not a budget. Let me get there, so that I can present the budget to you, and some of these policies will be appropriate.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, I would want a further clarity on this all-important policy. Your manifesto talks about tertiary. Tertiary is not only the universities, but post-secondary institutions that award diplomas, certificates, in my view, are tertiary institutions. So, you have nursing training institutions, colleges of nursing. You have the colleges of education. Are they all going to be factored in the free first-year tuition to avoid discrimination?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I think I’ve made this point. I’m not yet in a position to make policy pronouncements on behalf of the government. I’m only a designate, a nominee. You need to approve me first. Give me the power to be able to make policies and announce to you policies. Mr. Chairman, you may ask the Honourable minority leader to file a question so that I can come and answer when I become the minister.
Chairman: Thank you very much. You are to file a question after approval.
Afenyo-Markin: No worries at all. But, you see, a distinction must be made. There are matters that you need to get to the ministry to enable you to have it handy. Those are not the ones I’m asking you. These are policies, and being part of a political party leadership, I know what goes into manifesto pledges. We had a hint many months or if not a year or two ago that you were leading the economic team of your party. Therefore, you’ve always known about this policy. It didn’t just get into your manifesto.
What I want to know from you are facts within your domain, whether colleges of education, colleges of agriculture, colleges of nursing, and other institutions that are tertiary institutions are part of this free first-year tuition. That is what I want to know from you, because you know what is tertiary when you were drafting the policy. That’s what I want you to tell me, not something that you will get to know upon arriving at the ministry.
Chairman: Leader, with all due respect, the word tertiary is unambiguous. You are just calling on the nominee to give you an interpretation of tertiary. I think we should give the word tertiary its ordinary meaning, and then we can proceed.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, thank you very much. I can understand where you are coming from. But you see, we are a political class, and we are dealing with a social intervention deliverables. Those watching us would want clarity, and that is all I seek to do, so that somebody at Legon would not assume that university is university and that he or she will benefit.
But somebody at the nursing college in Winneba, who is doing a diploma in nursing, would think that because they did not explain it, he or she will not benefit. So, I know you had the benefit of knowing what tertiary means at the time you were drafting this policy, when you said you would give first-year tertiary students free tuition. You pay for them. Government will pay. So, parents would not need to pay at all. So, I just want the clarification.
Dr. Forson: Chairman, I think it’s unambiguous in our manifesto like you said. I do not seek to reinterpret what is in the manifesto. And it’s as clear as possible. In the next budget, if you have any doubt, we can clarify those in the next budget. Thank you.
Afenyo-Markin: Fair enough, Chairman. Fair enough. So let me come to the next leg of this social intervention, the free SHS.So, you have promised that you will extend it to the private secondary schools. You are going to be a major advisor to government. Do you have a plan as to the number of students in the private secondary schools? And if so, have you looked at the cost?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, the number of students in the private school as of yesterday cannot be the same as today. It moves. So whatever target or whatever costing that was done was done with the data as at the time they did assessment. I was not part of the group that did assessment. Today, we are in office. We need to look at the data, the number of people concerned, and how much you are paying. Let’s get to office.
The president is only two weeks. It’s less than two weeks old. It’s one week old. Let’s get to the office. And then we can start work. There’s no minister at post as we speak. And so, you need to help the president to constitute his cabinet as soon as possible so that they can advise him, for him to come to parliament to deliver his speech. Thank you.
Afenyo-Markin: So, the private secondary schools that you propose to extend free SHS to is going to include Ghana International School, Lincoln, Association, because all these are private schools, secondary schools.Are you going to include them?
Chairman: Well, the nominee is capable of answering the question. Other than that, private school is private school.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I’m not aware that Ghana International, Lincoln, and it takes WASSCE. They don’t write WASSCE. I’m not aware. I’m not aware that Ghana International School conduct goes through West Africa Examination Council.
They do GCSEs and A-levels and others. I’m not aware that you can equate Lincoln with a school fee of $30,000 to Achimota School. I’m not aware of that. Mr. Chairman, let’s get to work. And when we get there, we’ll present to this house a comprehensive programme.
Mr. Chairman, the previous administration was unable to pass the free SHS bill. You are aware of that. And Mr. Chairman, we will regulate this free senior high school policy properly to make it sustainable, sustainable, so that it becomes part of our nation’s development.
I think His Excellency the President has made his pronouncement. And so, we’ll do what we have to do. The Honourable Minority Leader knows me well, that I’m a man of my word. And I can give him that assurance that whatever he takes will come to this house and seek your approval.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman. Is the nominee fully aware that in respect of the promises by his party in the health sector, the party engaged an independent body, which body gave it a minimum cost of $18 billion? Are you aware of this? And do you agree to that? The health sector promises that your party…
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I’m not aware. The only thing I’m aware of is that during the transition, I was told that Agenda 111 would take $1.5 billion to complete. I’m not aware of this $18 billion. Are you committed to completing the Agenda 111 with that amount?
Are you committed to that? Mr. Chairman, the immediate past government was in office for eight years. They announced the Agenda 111 in 2020. We were told they were going to complete it within a year or two. Mr. Chairman, this is four years. They have not been able to complete Agenda 111. We have huge debt awaiting the next government. What we know is that His Excellency the President has committed that he is going to complete all ongoing projects.
I’m a servant of the President. I’ll be his minister if approved. And so, when you approve me as minister, I will assess the situation. I will find out what you are leaving behind and be able to advise the President appropriately. But at the moment, I’m not in a position to advise him because I do not have the full data of what is the true state of Ghanaian economy.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, I have the last two for my respected brother and colleague, and I’ll call it a day. Leader, your government has indicated that its financing needs will be alleviated from second quarter in 2025 as debt service payment to bondholders resume. Considering that T-bills will not be sustainable to meet the financing needs, tell us what strategies you intend to pursue to meet the high financing needs without jeopardising debt sustainability.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, financing is a function of the budget. If you throw out a huge deficit, you have to finance it. So, you have to throw out the deficit first. We don’t intend to throw out an unsustainable financing.
Where the gross financing needs is in a way that if you go to the market, you will not be able to finance and put further pressure on the market. So, as I’ve said, we’ll front load the fiscal consolidation and expenditure base. So, let’s introduce the budget, and when we introduce the budget, we’ll know the financing needs and we’ll make sure that we’ll be able to finance our budget. But there are options.
There are options. We’ll work with our development partners. There’s World Bank, there’s IMF, there is EU and all. So, if there’s any financing needs aside the markets, both domestic and external, we’ll be able to tap into the financing, our financing request from the development partners. So, these are options that we can do.
Afenyo-Markin: As a follow up on that, I’m quite curious. So how would you raise this 10 billion without borrowing? This 10 billion, you had indicated to me earlier that you will present your plan to parliament and in that, we’ll know as a house how much you intend to raise each year. Now, you are so sensitive to your debt servicing strategy. Now, how do you intend to still achieve this without borrowing?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I’ve never said we are not going to borrow. I’ve said that financing needs are a function of the budget and it depends on the fiscal deficit you throw out. If you throw out a fiscal deficit of 10% of GDP, you have to finance the 10%.Why are you financing the 10% of your GDP? Are you financing it from debt? And if it’s debt, what kind of debt? Is it domestic, T-bills or long dated?
Is it external or kind of? So, I’m saying that your concern will be dealt with with the kind of financing we throw out. If we throw out 1%, 2%, 3%, 4% and the market can accommodate it, so be it. So, let’s look at the options available.But all of this will depend on your financing needs. So, for us, fiscal discipline will be the anchor and we’ll be mindful of the market needs and what the market can accommodate. Thank you.
Chairman: I thought you said two questions.
Afenyo-Markin: No, there was a follow-up.Chairman. The nominee has addressed us on some key issues and I’m happy with his approach thus far. I would want to ask him, he’s aware that a key development partner, the IMF, entered into some agreement with us.
And in that agreement, they required of us to put in place certain measures. He is aware that the e-levy and the betting tax and other taxes he considers are nuisance taxes have been captured as part of our revenue sources in this agreement with the IMF. So, the government really has no unfettered discretion.
How do you justify the repealing of these tax laws without hurting the very agreement that you have with the IMF? You think, in other words, you think that you can freely repeal these tax laws and without introducing a new revenue measure, the fund will be happy with you and will not see that your repealing of these tax laws amount to breaching an existing agreement with them. Thank you.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the IMF did not ask the former government to introduce e-living. The e-levy was introduced before the IMF broke up. And so, the IMF did not ask you to introduce e-levy. The betting tax was also introduced by ourselves, not the IMF, not an IMF prescription.
The IMF will give you a fiscal deficit to achieve. It is up to you how you achieve it, and we’ll do just that. But let me say this. But let me say this. Mr. Chairman, the NDC government recognises that there is an IMF programme. We are committed to implement the IMF programme.
We are also committed to achieve the objectives of the IMF programme. We are not going to jettison the IMF programme. We’ll implement it. It is an agreement between the Republic of Ghana and the International Monetary Fund. Today, we are in government. We have a responsibility to implement it.
On record, we have said that we will implement the IMF programme, and so we’ll implement the IMF programme. We are not running away from that. And so, whatever it takes, whatever it takes, we will not run away from the implementation of the IMF programme. And we’ll implement it to the letter and achieve the objectives of the IMF programme.
Afenyo-Markin: So, Chair, there’s no meaning, therefore, suggesting to us that repealing these tax laws, these taxes that he considers them useless, repealing them without introducing new taxes or other forms of taxes in their place will not amount to breaching the IMF agreement?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, you can break another form of revenue through compliance. You can use compliance measures to bring in additional revenue to replace these taxes you are removing.
Afenyo-Markin: Finally, leader, your government is proposing overhauling the existing foreign exchange regime. As finance minister, what is the alternative? Have you any comprehensive foreign exchange policy you will pursue? Because it’s not just enough to say that you will depart from the existing foreign exchange regime. The country would like to know how you intend to come up with an alternative policy which policy will help to address the currency depreciation and build more foreign exchange markets? We would want to know from you.
Dr. Forson: Chairman, the Bank of Ghana has the mandate to deal with our foreign exchange regime. I’m not being vetted as the governor of the Republic of Ghana or the Bank of Ghana. I’m being vetted as a minister responsible for finance.
I don’t want to make policies or policy proposals that will tie the monetary policy regime. I think we should leave that to the central bank and the governor or the vice governor to be able to have the power to deal with monetary policy, particularly the management of our foreign exchange.
I am on record to have said that the Bank of Ghana alone cannot be left to our own currency. It doesn’t mean we are going to micromanage the foreign exchange regime. It means we are going to coordinate with the Bank of Ghana. We will coordinate effectively with the central bank to be able to manage Ghana’s foreign exchange regime. That I know we will do.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, just a follow-up.You see, leader, your manifesto did not say that this is a mandate of the central bank. You will come up with a new policy. Which policy have far-reaching consequences on the economy? The central bank would only look at you as an arrowhead and implement in a direction that the government policy so directs or chooses.
So I think that to run away from it may be a bit unfortunate. It cannot be said by you as a holder of the purse that this is a matter for the central bank. Please, at the time you crafted this and engraved same in your policy, you knew what you wanted to achieve.
The people of Ghana do not want to get the impression that you did ‘matriki wo,’ you know, because you said it on good authority that this is what you are going to do. So, I want to know from you whether indeed as a head of the exchequer, you are committed to this and not to say that it’s a duty of the central bank.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, I was trying to refer you to the constitutional provision of the Bank of Ghana. And we all know that the constitution mandates the central bank to manage our foreign exchange. Mr. Chairman, our manifesto did not say the Minister of Finance would be the one to manage the foreign exchange region. No. We announced our economic policies. And you know that it takes both monetary and fiscal to manage the economy. It’s not only the Minister of Finance that manages the economy.
And so, it’s the two of us. And so, Mr. Chairman, I want to jealously guard the independence of the central bank when it comes to monetary policy formulation. Monetary policy formulation and the management of the foreign exchange. That is in their purview. Let’s respect it, allow the next governor or the governor to deal with it. Chairman, I so submit.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, since the nominee has referred us to the constitution, and we also have the manifesto promise of his party, it is important we reconcile. If at all material times, the nominee knew that the foreign exchange regime, the policy is squarely under Article 183 of the constitution. And that is under the control of Bank of Ghana, then why did his party commit to this in a manifesto? Because the manifesto did not make that reference. And you introduce it as a government policy to be led by the finance minister.
And you on record, you on record to have chastised the former finance minister, Mr. Ken Ofori-Atta, when we had issues with our currency, the blame was on him as the finance minister.I remember the famous Ken Must Go. So, my question to you is this when we had the deprecation of the cedi, your side in parliament chastised the finance minister for not showing leadership in managing the cedi.
To you, it wasn’t about Bank of Ghana. And I’m saying that today, in your manifesto, you have re-echoed that same policy.And if you are now going to quote the constitution to say that that is going to be the responsibility of the central bank, then my question to you is that, did you mislead the Ghanaian people when you engraved that in your manifesto?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, that is inaccurate. Mr. Chairman, let me also refer you to the same constitution, Article 183(4). Chairman, it says, the following shall apply to the governor of the Bank of Ghana. He shall be appointed by the president acting in consultation with the Bank of the Council of State for a period of four years.
Mr. Chairman, the governor will have to be appointed by the president. The governor will have to subscribe to the ideals and the vision of the president in foreign exchange, in the foreign exchange management. The president has a social contract. He signed a social contract with the people of Ghana. His appointment or his appointee must reflect exactly that. And so, Mr. Chairman, we have not erred.
The same constitution talking about the mandate of the central bank, says that the president must appoint the governor. And so, you have to appoint someone who subscribes to your ideals, someone who buys into your vision. And so, he’s going to appoint someone he believes will do what it takes, so that will be done. That will be done.
Afenyo-Markin: Chairman, he’s introduced an important matter. There’s a central bank governor. We have a governor of the central bank. When is his tenure coming to an end?
Dr. Forson: Chairman, you should be telling us, but I know he has had his two terms, two maximum terms, and he has some months to go. So, certainly, within the next four years, the president will have the opportunity to appoint a governor. You mean after he has retired? I am not the appointing authority.
Afenyo-Markin: Honourable nominee, you are telling the committee that the governor has a few months to go. I want to ask you that this new appointment you are referring to, would it be after his retirement?
Chairman: Honourable members, the constitution states clearly the tenure of office of the governor. So, definitely, what the nominee is saying is that within a period, it will come to an end, and the president will have the opportunity.
So, this issue as to whether, when exactly it will end, is not a question for the nominee to be asked.So, honourable members, it’s now my turn to answer a question, to ask a question, but I have no question for the nominee. I will use the period to acknowledge the presence of some guests in our midst who are here to give moral support to the nominee.
May I have the privilege to say you are most welcome. Honourable members, let me use the opportunity to thank the nominee for attending upon the committee.Honourable Minister-designate, you are discharged, but you will surely hear from the committee. Thank you very much.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.Mr. Chairman, I just want to say a word. Mr. Chairman, today you did not treat me like the majority leader of Ghana’s Parliament, but I recognise that this had to happen because I’m going to serve the people in a very sensitive way. So, I recognise that.Thank you.
