Chairman: Thank you very much. I will now give the floor to Honourable Alhassan Umar.
Alhassan Umar, MP, Zabzugu: Thank you, Chairman, for giving me this opportunity. Mr. nominee and Leader, congratulations. I have a question on public debt. And I’ll base it on the Mid-Year Review, 2024 Mid-Year Policy Review. Paragraph 51 states that the public debt of Ghana is GH¢742 billion as of today. I want to ask you how do you plan to manage this huge debt? Thank you.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, we will manage the public debt. I know it’s a matter of concern to most of us. But I can assure you, don’t be dismayed. We’ll do whatever it takes to clear the harms that have been created as a result of the debt restructuring.
For example, I’ve looked at the domestic maturities carefully. And you can see that as a result of the debt restructuring, 2025, this year, we’ll have to pay off amortisation, debt repayment, no interest. GH¢12.6 billion, domestic.
2026 you’ll have to repay another GH¢15.7 billion, 2027, you have to pay GH¢53 billion and 2028, GH¢48 billion. So, you could see the harms that have been created. It’s frightening and worrying. You have similar harms that has been created at the Eurobond side. You have billions of dollars. This year, already, we’ve paid about US$364 million, and others that are coming up.
From next year, you’ll be compelled to pay every year US$1 billion from the Eurobond market. From the bilateral official creditors, we don’t know yet, because they’ve not signed MOU and all. I recognise the challenges that we have to face as a country. I’m familiar with it.
What I can say is that we need to urgently go back to the drawing board to see what we can refinance and what we cannot refinance, and build buffers to take those ones that we cannot refinance. Currently, we do not have buffers to take off some of this debt as and when they fall due, particularly the external side.
No buffers. We have to learn from the past. We have to learn from our mistakes as a country. Honourable Seth Terkper once taught me how to build buffers, and his famous sinking fund, when you have the need to save during good times to take care of eventualities or during bad times. We did the same.
To the extent that when we were leaving office, there was enough buffers for the incoming administration to repay the maturing Eurobond, we did just that. Today, it is obvious that we do not have buffers for the external side. For the domestic side, I don’t know of any buffer, but nevertheless, and as I’ve said, don’t be despaired, we will manage this debt.
His Excellency, the former president, in his last State of the Nation address said that he did not expect the incoming finance minister to default. I want to use this podium to assure the former president that we will not default. We are very much aware of the harms that have been created. It’s not palatable. It’s worrying. For example, you need to always, every week, week in, week out, go into the T-Bill market and refinance GH¢111 billion.
Week in, week out. 91 days, you have to refinance GH¢51.6. 182 days, you have to refinance GH¢24.6 billion. And 364 days, you have to refinance GH¢34.9 billion. So together, we are talking of GH¢111 billion Ghana cities in T-Bill that you have to refinance, or probably rollover, aside the domestic payment debt that I spoke about.
But we will implement an effective debt management programme, and we will establish an independent debt management office. I think I said it earlier. And this independent debt management office will manage our debt better. And going forward, avoid past mistakes.
I think that is very important. I think we don’t have to dwell too much with the past. The past is behind us. We have a country to take care of. We have citizens that are struggling. And so, we’ll focus on the way forward, the forward march of our people, and do what is right. But be assured, we’ll manage the debt better.
Chairman: Thank you very much. Any more questions from honourable member? Honourable members, against the ground rules, I’ve exercised my discretion as the chairman of the committee to welcome a question from Sammi Awuku, a friend to the committee. Samuel Awuku: MP, Akuapem North: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Honourable nominee, I would like to refer you to a publication on the 15th of March 2021.And I don’t want to paraphrase, because I don’t want to miss anywhere. And I quote, Ghana today, we are complaining that this gambling is destroying our youth. I’ve read a number of articles on this.
But I’ve thought that the government will come out with a policy to restrict gambling, and to even ban it, he said. And this was a quotation attributed to you, honourable nominee. I want to ask and proceed on this.Do you still stand by this position of banning gambling, and banning betting, and all that in its entirety, or now your position has changed? That’s what I wanted to ask. Thank you.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think it’s a very good question, and it’s an opportunity for me to clarify. Mr. Chairman, I was on a show with Honourable Kojo Oppong Nkrumah, and the context must come out. The Honourable Kojo Oppong Nkrumah, at the time, a minister for information, I’m sure, had the responsibility to sell a government policy on betting. And he said, I’m surprised you are not bringing up that portion.
He said that betting tax is being implemented because it is destroying our youth, and that the government is introducing this betting tax to, no, he said the government is introducing this betting tax to deter them, equivalent to a cent tax, so that they will not be staking their bet.
I retorted on a show being hosted by Evans Mensah on Joy FM PM Express. I retorted by saying that that will not solve the problem. That will not solve the problem because I’ve read a number of articles, and the article presupposes or suggests that it is destroying our youth.
And so, if you want to introduce a tax, you have to first look at the elasticities, and as to whether the elasticities will mean that imposing such a tax will prevent the individual or the people concerned from the staking of the betting or not. But I doubt that that will.
And so, if you intend doing that, the best option is to ban it and not to introduce a tax. And I said the tax will not solve the problem. Here we are today, I’ve been vindicated. Has the tax solved the problem as intended by the government? Big no. I insist that that tax must be abolished. And as Minister of Finance, my first budget, I will abolish the betting tax. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you very much, Honourable Member.
Mahama Ayariga, MP, Bawku Central: My leader, my real question was to ask you how prepared you are to deal with the multitude of economic challenges confronting Ghana.But after listening to you within these few minutes, I thought it wise to abandon my question.
Because even before asking, you have made a case demonstrating your readiness and preparedness to confront the problems of Ghana with greater expertise and finesse than we have seen in the past. So, I have a few questions focusing on what my brother and former majority leader and now minority leader raised in his thesis that he read before we started.It’s a very beautiful thesis.Number one, will you abolish the E-levy?
Dr. Forson: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, my position on the E-levy is well known. I do not intend to run from it. I’ve written articles against the E-levy. I championed opposition against the E-levy. I still stand by them. Mr. Chairman, the E-levy is neither a direct tax, indirect tax, nor an excise tax. I don’t know how to classify the E-levy as a tax practitioner.
Mr. Chairman, it doesn’t mean that I do not recognise that the E-levy brings in certain revenue. But the fact remains that the E-levy retards our progress towards a cashlight economy and the fintech. We need to abolish the E-levy.
I have said, and I’m on record to have said, that given the opportunity, we will abolish the E-levy. I want to restate that position, that if approved as part of the first budget, I’ll be privileged and I will announce that we will abolish the E-levy as part of our first budget.
Recognising my earlier stance and the commitment that His Excellency the President, President Mahama said, that as part of our 120 days agenda, we will abolish the E-levy. We stand by that. We stand by that. And I can assure you, the E-levy will go in the next, within the next, within the 120 days calendar that we’ve announced. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you very much, Honourable Mahama Ayariga. The minority leader and the ranking member wants to do a follow-up on the question relating to abolishing E-levy.
Afenyo-Markin: Thank you, Chairman.Chair, my respected colleague and leader tells us that he’s aware that abolishing the E-levy would amount to government losing revenue. How does he make up for the loss in revenue?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, it shouldn’t always be revenue, revenue, revenue. But why are we not paying attention to expenditure? I think you have a choice of both. Remove the E-levy and replace it, or remove the E-levy, don’t replace it and cut corresponding expenditure. The option is on the table.
As Minister, I will obviously consider the E-levy holistically and the fact that it’s going and look at its impact and assess it appropriately. But my commitment will not change. The E-levy has to go and it will go immediately. Chairman: Thank you very much. He intimated he has a further supplementary question.
Afenyo-Markin: Chair, my respected colleague and leader has introduced an important point and I find it very intelligent one. He says that it’s not always about revenue but expenditure. We are aware of several expenditure lines. These are largely social intervention programmes.
Is he saying that he’s going to do away with some of the social intervention programmes to enable him to succeed? Or has he been able to identify a particular expenditure line to be able to do it? Because to say you are going to abolish it on good authority and you are not going to look for another source of revenue to replace it but you’re going to cut on expenditure, it so suggests that you’ve identified one. Have you been able to identify one?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, the quality of expenditure matters. I have said here and I’m on record to have said that as part of our short-term measures we will indeed implement a careful but a strong expenditure based front-loaded fiscal consolidation agenda without hurting growth and the vulnerable. The vulnerable obviously means protecting social, I mean social protection.
Mr. Chairman, I’m a social democrat. My party, the NDC, is a social democratic party. We stand by our ideals. We will not be the ones to hurt the vulnerable. We will protect the vulnerable in our society. Our expenditure cut will be careful, will be done in a way where the vulnerable will be protected.
And I have said the quality of expenditure matters. It matters in the sense that expenditure must drive inclusive growth and so if the expenditure is wasteful and it’s not properly targeted and it’s not achieving the desired outcome then you have to re-look at it. So, we’ll be guided. Remember, aside my professional expertise, I’m also a politician. I have won a mandate and my constituency is a rural constituency. I understand the people of Ghana.
I understand the needs of the vulnerable. I understand the dynamics of the political economy. I have monitored Ghana’s economy for close to 20 years, two decades. I understand its trends and I can assure you that whatever policy that we will introduce, we will introduce it in such a way that it will drive inclusive growth and help all of us. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you very much. The Ranking Member is really enjoying the answers to the questions.We may now move on with Honourable Mahama Ayariga.
Mahama Ayariga: Honourable Ato Forson, you have been talking about cutting down on expenditure, repeated that several times this morning. Is the reduction in the number of ministers and the reduction in the number of existing ministries, is that part of the measures being taken at the highest levels to cut down on expenditure?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, the size of government matter. It feeds into the expenditure framework. Reducing government ministries from 30 to 23 gives you a savings of seven. Seven bureaucratic agencies. Seven bureaucratic agencies come with its own cost. Therefore, it is part of the envelope. So straight away you can see the envelope.
Today, the Ministry of Finance will have to populate the budget as approved by Parliament for expenditure in advance of appropriations. It has, as part of it, 30 ministries. Immediately they have to realign to 23. So straight away you have cost centres of 27 that you have to eliminate. Some are fixed, but they are variable costs that you immediately cut.
And so, you can understand that as part of the government’s policy to cut down expenditure, we have already begun. And I’m sure in the next budget, you’ll be very impressed with us, what some of the things we will do. I don’t want to preempt it. I’m not a minister yet. I’ll count on you to approve it very fast so that I can start the work. Thank you.
Mahama Ayariga: My last question is, do you have any doubts about any of our commitments to abolish any of the taxes? Are we reneging? Is there any conversation in the circles of government? Is there any doubt in our mind about any of the taxes that we said we will abolish?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, certainly no. Certainly no.
Chairman: Thank you very much. I will take a question from Honourable Ampem Nyarko.
Ampem Nyarko, MP, Asuogyaman: Thank you, Chairman. And congratulations to Honourable Dr. Ato Forson. But I am impressed with your responses so far, a clear indication that you are ready to help reset Ghana.
But I have a quick question. The previous government in the process of introducing E-levy abolished road tolls. As you have committed to remove E-levy, would you consider to bring back road toll collections? And what is your take on property rate collections as well?
Because they attempted to centralise it, and they reversed it with the previous government. They attempted centralisation of property rate collections, and they reversed it with the explanation that there were some challenges. What is your take on road toll and property rate? Mr. Chairman, thank you.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, the previous government indeed removed the road toll. By getting to the end, they signalled that road toll is coming back. Mr. Chairman, they submitted to Parliament, it was not laid. A concession agreement with the company to reintroduce the road tolls. I have a copy.
Mr. Chairman, the NDC indicated from day one that the road toll will come back. We are not running away from it. In fact, the Honourable Haruna Iddrisu, at the time, the minority leader, said that the NDC promises to bring back the road toll. The Hansard will bear us out. We have not run away from that fact.
So, I can assure you, we are a party that sticks to our promises. And whatever we have promised to do, we’ll do just that. If the road toll is a way to raise revenue, we’ll raise the revenue. And the road toll, if you use the road, you have to pay a toll. And it’s all over the world. Ghana won’t be the first country, won’t be the last one.
You have to contribute towards the road maintenance. And so, the only way we have to collect the revenue effectively and efficiently, so that we can plough it towards the maintenance of those roads. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you very much.I will take a question from Dr. Gideon Boako.
Dr. Gideon Boako, MP, Tano North: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.Mr. Chairman, the Honourable Nominee is affiliated to the Kwame Nkrumah University of Science and Technology Business School. In fact, he signed up for the programme at a time I was seconded to the office of the vice president.
So as a lecturer of the business school, I think it is appropriate that on behalf of the KNUST Business School, I congratulate you. And I can see my colleague, Professor Jonathan Annan, sitting behind you, to show moral support. The Honourable Nominee, on 3rd April 2019, Ghana’s economic management team held a public lecture at the College of Physicians and Surgeons.
And this lecture was led by the former vice president, Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia. The lecture was themed, Our Progress, Our Status, Our Future. A day after that lecture, there was another public lecture organised by the Coalition for Restoration that is affiliated to your party on 4th April 2019. And you spoke at that public lecture, which was themed, The State of the Ghanaian Economy, Myths and Truths.
In your presentation, you put out some data, among which I found a highly misleading data that you put out. And to quote you, you said, and I quote, Mr. Chairman, the official data from the Ministry of Finance indicates clearly that overall, deficit by end year 2016 was 7.8% of GDP, into brackets, 6.1% of new rebases GDP. But the figure you put out, Honourable Nominee, was utterly untrue.
And to back this with evidence, if you read the budget statements of 2017, the mid-year budget statement of 2018, and the mid-year budget statement of 2019, the full budget, you will see that page 7, paragraph 14, of the 2017 mid-year budget, put that figure at 9.3% of GDP, and not what you quoted.
Again, page 12, paragraph 45 of the 2018 mid-year budget, put the figure again at 9.3%, and not what you quoted. Lastly, page 3, paragraph 14 of the 2019 full budget statement, put the figure at 9.3%, and not what you quoted. Where did you get that figure you quoted from? Would you consider apologising to the former Vice President, Dr. Mahamudu Bawumia?
Chairman: Honourable Dr. Gideon Boako, it doesn’t lie in your mouth to ask the nominee to consider apologising, so we draw that from your question.
Dr. Gideon Boako: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I submit to your guidance. Honourable Nominee, my question is, you know the enviable office of the Finance Minister, that potentially you’re going to occupy, should come with utmost integrity, honesty, backed by meticulousness, profundity, and analytical precision. In your capacity as Minority Spokesperson, you misled the public with wrong public data.
Can you assure this committee that you are not going to sleep on the job, and make some of these data presentational errors that we have even experienced in the past, for which Ghana was charged for some misreporting by the IMF? That’s my question, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman: Before you answer the question, the questioner, I would want you to consider withdrawing, going to the office with a degree of honesty, integrity. I mean, it’s against our rules, so expunge that from your question, then I can ask the nominee to answer the question. Dr. Gideon Boako: Mr. Chairman, if you can guide me.
Afenyo-Markin: I think what the Chairman is saying is that, the aspect where you delved into his personality, so just say that that bit is deemed withdrawn. Then we move on.
Dr. Gideon Boako: Mr. Chairman, fully acknowledge.
Dr. Forson: Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the Honourable Gideon Boako has got it very wrong. Very wrong in the sense that he’s not privy to the IMF data and I want to refer him to the IMF staff report for 2018 and 2019 and if you can check now, I want to take him into it.
Mr. Chairman, he’s wrong. In fact, the very 7.8 fiscal deficit for 2016 was reported by the IMF and Mr. Chairman, the IMF has subsequently even revised the fiscal deficit for 2016 down on cash basis to 6.3 percent. 6.3 percent. Mr. Chairman, you know me in this House. I don’t just speak. I speak with data. I research before I speak. I use data from independent sources.
Ghana was in an IMF programme at the time. In 2017, the Ministry of Finance presented a budget. They quoted the numbers he’s making reference to. I challenged the numbers. In fact, my former boss also challenged the numbers because I was an economist at the time. In 2018, they repeated the same inaccurate numbers and it had become the order of the day.
Mr. Chairman, I have a responsibility to defend our legacy and I had a responsibility to defend our legacy and in defending the legacy, I actually decided to use data from independent sources, the International Monetary Fund and in doing so, the IMF presented it. Mr. Chairman, I’ll give you this. This is a dashboard I asked the Ministry of Finance to tabulate for me. Ministry of Finance’s own data. I did not compute this data. It’s coming from Ministry of Finance.
According to the same Ministry of Finance, the fiscal deficit cash basis for 2016 was 6.3 percent of GDP. Mr. Chairman, this is not coming from me. So, the 7.8 percent, I was extremely charitable, extremely, extremely charitable because I’ve waived off 1.5 percent of GDP. But that was what the Ministry of Finance reported.
They gave it to me this morning when I asked for it. This is coming from the Ministry of Finance. So, there’s no basis for me to apologise. I stated a fact. I stated what is coming from the IMF, what I had earlier on objected to and I asked the government to consider. We look at the numbers again. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman: Thank you very much, honourable nominee. We indicated earlier that he doesn’t have the power to ask any nominee to apologise. It doesn’t lie in his mouth and it was withdrawn. So, I will move to the next questioner, member of the committee, honourable.
Abena Osei-Asare: Mr. Chairman, I will seek your leave for a point of order.My brother and nominee.
Chairman:On which matter are you taking the point of order?
Abena Osei-Asare: On the matter he just put on the table that consistently Ministry of Finance presented wrong data.
Chairman: Under what order are you coming?
Abena Osei-Asare: Mr. Chairman, I have to put this on record that he’s saying that consistently for two years Ministry of Finance presented wrong data. You were a member of Parliament at that time.We were all members of Parliament at that time and then he comes back to tell us that today he’s gone back to that same Ministry of Finance to get accurate data because he’s the one going to lead or chair, lead the Ministry.
I don’t think it is proper. I don’t think this is how we should treat ourselves. If for one reason you have found out another data that is maybe contrary to what we presented, there would definitely be explanations. Definitely there’ll be, I mean, reasons why it is so. But to say that consistently we presented wrong data to Parliament consistently for two years, Mr. Chairman, this is Ghana.
And like my neighbour in Atiwa West said, whatever we say here, the international investors are listening and watching and it will have repercussions on this economy. So, let’s manage what we say. We are not saying don’t speak the truth, but you cannot say that consistently for two yearsMinister of Finance presented a wrong data here. Mr. Chairman, I expect you to do something about it. Thank you very much.
Chairman: I will not allow the nominee to answer. That is not a question. It’s a commentary. May we proceed?
Abena Osei-Asare: Mr. Chairman, respectfully, you have to do something about it because you were a member of Parliament at that time and they are saying that we, members of Parliament, watched while wrong data was being presented.
Chairman: And you are the chairman? Honourable Abena Osei-Asare, you are out of order. Abena Osei-Asare: Mr. Chairman, respectfully, you have to do something.
Chairman: Put your microphone off. Honourable Patrick Yaw Boamah, it’s now your turn.
Patrick Yaw Boamah, MP, Okaikoi Central: Chairman, we have female members on this committee, and I believe you must protect the ladies on the committee. Mr. Chairman, Abena is your colleague and a female member. Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Chairman, for the opportunity to ask some questions.Let me use the opportunity to congratulate my good friend, Honourable Cassiel Ato Baah Forson for his nomination as Finance Minister-designate.
Ato Baah Forson, sometime in 2022, you alluded to the fact that the Central Bank had printed over GH¢22 billion, ostensibly to inject into the economy some funds. I would want to find out from you if you still stand by that comment or those comments, given the fact that the Central Bank came out with a statement explaining what it did, which was in line with a fund programme.
Dr. Forson: Thank you. Mr. Chairman, I have not changed my position. Ghana was not in an IMF programme in 2022 and it cannot be in line with the IMF programme.
Patrick Boamah: I didn’t get the answer correctly from my good friend. Honourable nominee, can you repeat your answer?
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, he said what the Central Bank did was in line with the IMF programme. Ghana was not in an IMF programme and I stand by my position that the Central Bank indeed engaged in monetary financing, in other words known as money printing.
Patrick Boamah: Thank you very much for repeating your answer. Your second question. honourable Ato Forson, I know you are someone who loves to read the debt reports and you’ve always engaged me on the debt report from the Ministry of Finance. May I know your thoughts on the debt reports, particularly 2022? Reading from the previous debt report, the public debt as it stands now increases with the depreciation of the cedi.
About 90 percent of the increase in our external debt was due to the cedi’s depreciation, which is mainly outside the purview of the Central Bank or the Ministry of Finance. What are you going to do differently to ensure that exchange rate depreciation do not have a very negative effect on our balance of payments? Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you, Honourable Member. Honourable nominee, your answer to the question.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Mr. Chairman, yes, this House always considers the debt report. The Finance Committee always considers the debt report. We started raising the red flags and asked the Minister to act as far back in 2020. In fact, we deepened our call in 2021 and asked the government to act immediately. Our major concern at the time had to do with the exclusion of certain lines.
ESLA Bond, Sinohydro loan, Dakye Bond, and many others. And we said, what they are doing is wrong. And that as long as you are going to use government revenue, public revenue to repay this debt or service the debt, you should count it as part of the debt.
So, the debt that they were reporting excluded some of this debt that I have mentioned. We were ignored. By the end, when Ghana went into the IMF programme, we were compelled to add Sinohydro loan to the public debt. We were compelled to add ESLA Bond to the public debt.
We were compelled once again to add Dakye Bond to the public debt. So, we came back to the basics. We in the NDC felt vindicated, but we don’t seek that. We think it provides a very excellent lesson for all of us in the way we report our debt.
Fast forward, that is why the NDC will pledge in our manifesto to establish an independent debt management office so that we can report our debt in a very transparent manner to avoid past mistakes and to move on. The exchange rate issues you’ve mentioned are very genuine, very genuine.
Yes, as long as you borrow in another country’s currency, foreign currency, when the city depreciates as against those currencies, because you express it in the currency, it will have an impact and so your debt will be going up. But remember, it’s also your responsibility to manage the currency and it’s not someone else’s responsibility.
And Central Bank, the Bank of Ghana, has a role to play in the management, but they have to manage the currency and stabilise the currency. But Ministry of Finance has a role to play. So, the behaviour of the fiscal authorities will have some positive or negative transmissions at the monetary side. And so together we have to do it.
When I’m approved as Minister, I will work or coordinate effectively with the Central Bank for us to be able to anchor the city together, so that between the Ministry of Finance and the Central Bank, we can anchor the currency. That must be done. I strongly also believe that monetary finance must be eliminated.
We’ve done it in the past, in 2016, and monetary financing has a role to play in the inflation that we saw in 2016, and the city that we saw depreciating to a level that you are talking about. So, we need to work together and find a way to deal with the concerns that we’ve raised. I’m committed to that. We’ll work together. Thank you.
Patrick Boamah: Minister, I know there are some cocoa farmers in and around Ajumako, Enyan-Essiam, Assin area, Denchira, Ashanti, Western North. They’re all listening to you.And they would want to know from you, as Minister of Finance, because under the previous administration, cocoa board was moved from the Ministry of Finance to Ministry of Agriculture.
People had issues with it. They want to know from you, from a cocoa growing area, whether you are immediately going to increase, as promised, the producer price of cocoa to GH¢6,000 per bag, as promised.Thank you very much, and I wish you the very best.
Dr. Forson: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As we speak, the chairman of the producer price review committee is the Minister for Agriculture, and not the Minister for Finance. The government changed the position. In fact, President Akufo-Addo brought a law, a bill, to the House for us to consider changing.
Until that changes, I will not be the chair of the producer price review committee for me to commit. But what I can say is that, you know my passion with cocoa. I do not have a cocoa farm myself, but I recognise the work of the cocoa farmer, and I have fondly spoken about cocoa, and everyone knows that. I think the cocoa farmer must be prioritised.
One of the reasons why our cocoa is going down is that we are not paying the cocoa farmer a fair price. As a result, there are no incentives for the cocoa farmer to cultivate cocoa, and our volumes are dwindling from almost a million metric tonnes to four hundred and something thousand metric tonnes.
Today, we are the second largest producer of cocoa. Ecuador is fast approaching, and if care is not taken, Ecuador will overtake us. Cocoa has supported Ghana’s economy over the years. I think it’s about time that we pay attention to the cocoa sector by giving a fair price to the cocoa farmer and revamp the industry.
As Minister, obviously, as Minister of Finance, when approved, I will work with the Ghana Cocoa Board as a real sector active player to revitalise the cocoa sector, but at the same time paying attention to what the cocoa farmer gets, because we need to incentivise them, we need to encourage them to be able to cultivate the cocoa, and for them to be able to also be encouraged to stay within the sector.
Remember, the cocoa industry is the, more or less, the largest single employer of Ghana’s economy, and it cuts across how many regions in our country. Almost half of this country produces cocoa, so don’t overlook cocoa and will not overlook cocoa.
Patrick Boamah: Just to give you some information, that committee is co-chaired by the Minister of Finance. So, you have a voice, right from the word go, you have a voice.
Dr. Forson: So that even empowers me. And my passion will always come to play.
Chairman: Thank you. It’s now the turn of Honourable Governs Kwame Abodza, the Majority Chief Whip.
Kwame Abodza, MP, Adaklu: Chairman, thank you.I also want to take the opportunity to congratulate my boss, the Majority Leader, Honourable Cassiel Ato Forson. Working with you as your whip, I have no doubt you are cut for this job. You are a personality determined to achieve results, and you are selfless, and you love your country.
I believe with you in the chair, you will be able to drive, on behalf of the President, the economic reset that we all desire as a people of this country.
Honourable Dr. Ato Baah Forson, I have just one question for you, and this question is regarding a payment of $53 million towards a supposed cathedral project, which was a commitment of the former President to his God. As we speak, the $53 million has been paid.
The result is a big hole not far from here. We also know that the payment was made through the Ministry of Finance. My question to you is, having knowledge that the $53 million could have paid for three completed Agenda 111 district hospitals, could have paid for 1,226 classroom blocks, could have paid for 1,050 CHPS compounds, could have paid at least 299,000 teachers, and actually could have bought 9,000 cutlasses for farmers.
Will you promise that when you are approved by this House, you would set up an investigation as to whether this payment was legitimate, and if possible, retrieve this money so that we can buy the 9,000 cutlasses for the farmers, actually build 1,050 CHPS compounds, and 1,206 classroom blocks.
Hopefully, Adaklu will get some of the six classroom blocks, because we still have schools under trees. Will you make a commitment to make sure that this $53 million, which many Ghanaians believe was a waste, would become something that can benefit the ordinary people of this country? Mr. Chairman, thank you very much.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, this takes me back to what I started earlier, the quality of expenditure matter. You see, I’ve said earlier on that there is a need for us to cut the waste. This is one of the wastes that I refer to. And learning from past mistakes, we don’t need to repeat this.
As to whether we investigate it or not, the Ministry of Finance does not have investigative power. It is the government, and based on the government agenda to investigate. The Office of the Attorney General, and the newly established ORAL. So, Mr. Chairman, for me, let me put it this way.
There are bitter lessons we have to learn from some of these expenditures, and what it has done to all of us as a country. And what we have gone through together, because in the end, we ended up borrowing, and we borrowed into an unsustainable pit. To the extent that we had to give domestic bondholders haircuts, including Euro bondholders. So, we have to learn from it, and I’ve said that we need to identify some of these kinds of expenditures.
You are now aware of this one, but maybe there are a lot more that you are not aware of. Can we identify some of them? Can we pledge together, the political class, the governing class, not to continue some of these things, and allow the private sector to deal with some of these things?
So, I’ll leave that here, and urge you that you work with yourselves, to identify some of these wasteful expenditures, and cut them appropriately.Kwame Abodza: Leader, the people of Adaklu have heard a lot about the debt of this country. We have heard you say, sometimes, if we were to share the debt, my auntie, Auntie Peace, would have to pay GH¢20,000 as part of our debt.
But, so far, I’ve not heard you speak about, in your view, going through the transition, how much does this country owe now? What was it in 2016? And, what is it now? And, how much my auntie is supposed to pay? If we’re asked to pay that money, everybody is supposed to pay today.
Chairman: Thank you very much for your question. How much do we owe now? What was it in 2016? Please go ahead with your answer.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, the end year debt numbers have not been finalised. I would wish to wait for us to finalise end year numbers, and then, as part of the budget, we can announce it. And, maybe, His Excellency the President, during his State of the Nation address, will have to announce those accurate data.
For now, I will urge that we wait until they finalise end year numbers, because the fiscal fits into the debt. And so, we’ll be able to know exactly what is Ghana’s public debt. I don’t want to say something to change my position tomorrow. So, I beg that you leave that to the year numbers.
Chairman: Thank you. Honourable, it’s now the turn of the Deputy Leader, Honourable Patricia Appiahagyei.
Patricia Appiahaggei, MP, Asokwa: Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.Honourable Leader, that’s my favourite leader. Having been here for all this while, I’ve been wondering how many sins this committee has committed to fast-track your vetting today. I’ve been wondering how many sins we have committed, and I’ve been wondering whether the banana Republic, has been transported back to Ghana.So, that is my first question.
Chairman: Should I treat it as a comment or question to the nominee?
Patricia Appiahagyei: I need an answer from my leader.
Dr. Forson: Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Chairman, I remember enumerating the number of sins she’s committed as the Vice-Chair of our committee. Mr. Chairman, I’m not a member of the appointment committee. I cannot be too sure the sins they have committed. That one is between you and your God.
Patricia Appiahagyei: Oh, you mean you don’t know the sins we’ve committed as a committee for fast-tracking your vetting today, a vetting that was supposed to be held tomorrow and is being held today. You were even expecting it to be held in the next two weeks.Anyway, I like your answer.
Honourable leader, on behalf of the cocoa farmers across the country and on my own behalf, I’d like to congratulate you for your appointment as the Minister-designate for Finance. Honourable leader, the current cocoa price, producer price of cocoa is GH¢49,600 per tonne.That is GH¢3,100 for a 64 kg bag over the past one year. Over the past one year, you’ve been advocating for higher producer price for our cocoa farms.
As you know, they are very happy that given the nod, you are going to be on the seat.Should you get that nod from this House? What reasonable and fair producer price must our cocoa farmers expect from the new administration and when will this review take place? I would like to mention specifically the figure you mentioned, GH¢6,000 per bag of cocoa.
Dr. Forson: Thank you. Chairman, without a doubt, I’m a biggest advocate for cocoa farmers. I’ve done that in the last eight years and I’ve fought for the cocoa farmer year in, year out. I will not change that. I will work to improve the lot of the cocoa farmer, recognising their contribution to the economy, recognising that the cocoa sector has been the mainstay of Ghana’s economy for years.
My concern, and I’ve always raised this concern, has to do with the fact that the sector is collapsing and dwindling at a very fast rate, in fact at exponential rate.
I think we need to do something, including the farm gate price and revamping the sector itself. I’ve said that the Ghana Cocoa Board is currently under the Ministry of Agriculture. It is not under the Ministry of Finance, unless there’s a policy change. Let me speak to what is before us now.
It is not under the Ministry of Finance. So, I do not have the sole power, prerogative, to announce cocoa price today. But obviously, as a minister, I’ll be the champion for cocoa farmers and I’ll make sure that you get a fair price. Thank you.
Chairman: Thank you very much. Any further questions?
Patricia Appiahagyei: Yes, this will be a follow-up because I remember vividly on the floor of parliament, the minister indicated that he is going to advocate for GH¢6,000 a bag for cocoa farmers. And I’m surprised that you are now saying that it doesn’t lie within your sole prerogative to do that.You were emphatic to do that. So, should we demand that from you, the farmers are listening.
Dr. Forson: Chairman, thank you very much. I don’t think this is one of the sins that I enumerated. But I said I will advocate. And I’ve said that I will not change my position. I can’t suddenly change.
Chairman: Thank you very much. Another question, please.
